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No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

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Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#71

Post by gruez »

lapcat wrote: post #52
baidifnaoxi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pay gap studies are notorious for being overly ignorant of confounding factors. There probably is a pay gap but it’s incredibly hard to quantify and many studies choose to look only at $$ versus benefits (schedule flexibility, maternity leave, part time, etc) US studies for example don’t always consider that women overindex in less technical careers (teaching, humanities, etc), often those that have lower salaries bu…

> Pay gap studies are notorious for being overly ignorant of confounding factors. How about these factors? "Added to this is a poor work-life balance in South Korea, as well as a disparity in the distribution of domestic tasks. Women often assume the responsibility of raising children, pushing them to have to choose between working or being mothers. In South Korea, the work week is 52-hours-long." "Single mothers are…

>> Pay gap studies are notorious for being overly ignorant of confounding factors.

>How about these factors?

>"Added to this is a poor work-life balance in South Korea, as well as a disparity in the distribution of domestic tasks. Women often assume the responsibility of raising children, pushing them to have to choose between working or being mothers. In South Korea, the work week is 52-hours-long."

None of what you said contradicts the parent post, which was talking about pay gap (ie. when it comes to employment). What you've quoted is about "distribution of domestic tasks", which is specifically outside of employment.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#72

Post by mpweiher »

belltaco wrote: post #54
mpweiher wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. That's because there is no discernible wage gap. There is an earnings differential that has been pretty much fully explained. For example here, fairly comprehensively: "both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women's and men's incomes -- inclu…

Is that true in places like South Korea as well or only in the west? Was there a real wage gap in the US, say, a hundred years ago, when women finally got the right to vote?

Equal pay legislation was introduced in the US 60 years ago in 1963.

I would guess it wasn't introduced just for fun, so presumably before that unequal pay was commonplace.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_of_1963

South Korea introduced equal pay legislation in 1987.

https://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/WEBTEXT/27217/64843/

I looked around a little and couldn't find anything concrete on the gender earnings gap in South Korea, it seems a lot of the same sorts of mechanisms as in the west, just more of that. So it seems like corporate culture is a real shit-show, so possibly more women opt out of that.

But I really have no idea.

Example: "The life of the average working Korean woman in a chaebol or big company is not easy. The late-night company dinners that pressure females to drink..."

Hmm...as usual, an issue that is completely gender neutral is presented as "women most affected" (or in fact: "only women affected").

https://www.seoulz.com/quick-facts-about-the-gender-pay-gap-...

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#73

Post by mpweiher »

Onewildgamer wrote: post #46
mpweiher wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. That's because there is no discernible wage gap. There is an earnings differential that has been pretty much fully explained. For example here, fairly comprehensively: "both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women's and men's incomes -- inclu…

Haha. Well I agree with the reasons for difference in pay gap. My suggestion is why not make those metrics public as well, people can see for themselves if it related to working hours, output, level of risk etc.

That information largely is public. But as I wrote, it doesn't fit The Narrative™, so it doesn't get reported.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#74

Post by Tade0 »

baidifnaoxi wrote: post #49
Tade0 wrote: post #12

> The repercussions of the so-called “birth strike” have been severe for the country. For three consecutive years, the country has had the lowest fertility rate in the world, with an average of 0.78 children per woman. How much of that can be attributed to the birth strike considering South Korea's fertility rate started its latest downward spiral in 2016 and two out of those three years had heavily-enforced lockdown…

Agree, this movement seems almost non-existent. Seems like SK is more suffering from an overwork culture that leaves little time for anything outside of work. Fastest way to destroy fertility rate is wage slavery.

I talked at length once with a person whose husband is a South Korean who moved to Europe.

By her account he's happy here, because the work hours in South Korea are properly insane by European standards and he enjoys having so much free time now.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#75

Post by 0max »

rajin444 wrote: post #22
eatonphil wrote: post #5

Before reading this I assumed the biggest reason for Korean birthrate decline was that they don't allow enough immigrants, which is how some other developed countries handle it. I've heard only anecdotally from friends about the feminist movements and inequality faced, but the stats in this post sort of make clear the enormous problem of gender inequality in Korea. And furthermore it contrasts Korea with how other de…

> was that they don't allow enough immigrants Why is this the default solution? Shouldn’t we be asking why - after all these years of technical progress - it is not cheaper and easier to raise a family? Where are all the productivity gains going? Trying to make women “equal” to men is a ruse to squeeze more labor out of a population. Actual equality could be achieved by fairly disturbing the wealth of the populations…

By "some reason" you mean the chaebol plutocracy, right?

Right?

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#76

Post by lapcat »

gruez wrote: post #71
lapcat wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pay gap studies are notorious for being overly ignorant of confounding factors. How about these factors? "Added to this is a poor work-life balance in South Korea, as well as a disparity in the distribution of domestic tasks. Women often assume the responsibility of raising children, pushing them to have to choose between working or being mothers. In South Korea, the work week is 52-hours-long." "Single mothers are…

>> Pay gap studies are notorious for being overly ignorant of confounding factors. >How about these factors? >"Added to this is a poor work-life balance in South Korea, as well as a disparity in the distribution of domestic tasks. Women often assume the responsibility of raising children, pushing them to have to choose between working or being mothers. In South Korea, the work week is 52-hours-long." None of what you…

> What you've quoted is about "distribution of domestic tasks", which is specifically outside of employment.

They're directly related, because time spent on domestic tasks takes away time available for the notoriously time-intensive South Korean work culture.

Moreover, time spent child rearing also takes away time available for paid work. Of course many women choose to do this, but the question is to what extent this choice is forced upon them by various circumstances: society's expectations, the father's refusal to spend equal time child rearing, lack of accommodation for child rearing for both mothers and fathers by employers, etc.

There are many high paying jobs that employers refuse to hire at "part time", so they're excluding everyone who has significant time responsibilities outside of work. Also, employers tend to look unkindly at "gaps" in one's résumé, and time spent on childcare is an important example of a gap. These gaps can also make it more difficult to get promoted to higher positions within a company—those higher positions naturally coming with higher compensation.

A lot of people seem to think that women are just "choosing" lower paid positions, but realistically, what other choice to they have, other than remaining childless? Employers seem to act as if children didn't exist, or are some kind of "illness" that at most warrants a few weeks off.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#77

Post by ipaddr »

hotpotamus wrote: post #70
ipaddr wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Management usually makes 30%+ more than reports all around the world. Do you suggest workers want war around the globe? Either you are happy with your pay or not. If my next door neighbour makes more it doesn't change my bills. If I make more than them it doesn't sudden make my bills easier to pay.

Ah, seems like you are ignorant of the process of gentrification.

It's sunday, a great day to learn. Please share your insights.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#78

Post by lapcat »

mpweiher wrote: post #72
belltaco wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that true in places like South Korea as well or only in the west? Was there a real wage gap in the US, say, a hundred years ago, when women finally got the right to vote?

Equal pay legislation was introduced in the US 60 years ago in 1963. I would guess it wasn't introduced just for fun, so presumably before that unequal pay was commonplace. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_Pay_Act_of_1963 South Korea introduced equal pay legislation in 1987. https://www.ilo.org/dyn/natlex/docs/WEBTEXT/27217/64843/ I looked around a little and couldn't find anything concrete on the gender earnings…

> an issue that is completely gender neutral

It's not completely gender neutral.

For example, women tend to get more intoxicated than men by the same amount of alcohol.

Also, women tend to be more physically vulnerable than men in situations involving alcohol intoxication, for a number of reasons. (One of which is that the penis tends to be largely non-functional sexually when you're passed out.)

Marcel, you've always emphasized the physical differences between men and women, but you seem to ignore them here?

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