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No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

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Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#41
“Single mothers are stigmatized, doctors refuse to give IVF to women without a male partner—even though it’s not illegal—and out-of-wedlock births represent only 2% of the total, compared to the average of 41% for women in the OECD. Marriage and childbirth are closely intertwined; women are pressured to sacrifice their career once they have a child or get married."

Is everything described, evil?

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#42

I don't know the situation of South Korea to comment on this topic. But, with the corporate industries talking too much about transparency it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. Why not make the salary transparent across the board and the employee performance in public (internal to company) as well? People or Management say it is complicated, but is it really? This company Buffer appeared in H…

> it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap.

That's because there is no discernible wage gap. There is an earnings differential that has been pretty much fully explained.

For example here, fairly comprehensively: "both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women's and men's incomes -- including putting in more hours at work, taking riskier jobs or more hazardous assignments, being willing to change location, and training for technical jobs that involve less people contact -- and provides readers with specific, research-supported ways for women to earn higher pay."

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Earn-More-Startling/dp/154275...

But there are many other sources. One example was a study of wages at the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority, which has completely codified/rigid pay structure and still managed to "discriminate" against women, pretty much at the same rate as the national "gender pay gap". How? The men did more overtime, more shifts at inconvenient times etc.

In fact, given all the evidence, as far as I can tell it is overexplained.

Alas, this doesn't fit The Narrative™.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#43
post #15

In 2019, the 4B movement claimed to have 4,000 members! This is 0.016% of the women in South Korea! I'm going to assume (because I think it's very likely) that a large number of these were already not having much sex ("incels") nor planning on getting married. I'm also going to assume that many of these women who now claim they are remaining celibate are actually having sex anyway, as abstaining from sex is difficult…

from the article:

> For three consecutive years, the country has had the lowest fertility rate in the world, with an average of 0.78 children per woman. [...] The country is on alert, since an average of 2.1 children per woman is estimated to be necessary to keep the population stable. In 2020, the number of deaths exceeded the number of births in South Korea. Many cities are at risk of disappearing in the coming years.

you're going to have more of a problem writing that one off as "basically nothing."

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#44

I don't know the situation of South Korea to comment on this topic. But, with the corporate industries talking too much about transparency it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. Why not make the salary transparent across the board and the employee performance in public (internal to company) as well? People or Management say it is complicated, but is it really? This company Buffer appeared in H…

We do this in Norway, everyone’s salary was totally open (the last couple of years people can see if you have looked at their salary, so not totally open). A new government now, that want to make it totally open again. It’s the ‘Norwegian tax administration’ that give out the information. Media always have full access and can write articles based on it for individuals or groups of people, as long as they don’t publis…

Wow, that is impressive. Norway is surely advanced in humanities.

So, why not publicise the performance metrics of the employees as well? Not public at least accessible like what you mentioned on salary. I'm not questioning why Norway isn't doing it but in general why not?

Such access to performance can also serve as a driver in the employment industry. Along with the engineering blogs, one can display links to the portal with company attested achievements and stats, it will at least reduce false claims in LinkedIn.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious implication is that this conservative machismo culture is to some degree what women want. Presumably you disagree with that, so why not just tell us why?

Because culture is not determined by governments and election outcomes do not mean women want oppression to continue. The condition would be the same no matter if liberals or conservatives are in power.

Wow, just wow. Everything would be the same, whether you vote for equality or not? Says it all.

The article even states that the current president is related to this protest. So you‘re disputing that?

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#46

I don't know the situation of South Korea to comment on this topic. But, with the corporate industries talking too much about transparency it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. Why not make the salary transparent across the board and the employee performance in public (internal to company) as well? People or Management say it is complicated, but is it really? This company Buffer appeared in H…

> it seems no one has come to identifying the cause of wage gap. That's because there is no discernible wage gap. There is an earnings differential that has been pretty much fully explained. For example here, fairly comprehensively: "both men and women unconsciously make trade-offs that affect how much they earn. Farrell clearly defines the 25 different workplace choices that affect women's and men's incomes -- inclu…

Haha. Well I agree with the reasons for difference in pay gap. My suggestion is why not make those metrics public as well, people can see for themselves if it related to working hours, output, level of risk etc.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#47
post #32
post #15

In 2019, the 4B movement claimed to have 4,000 members! This is 0.016% of the women in South Korea! I'm going to assume (because I think it's very likely) that a large number of these were already not having much sex ("incels") nor planning on getting married. I'm also going to assume that many of these women who now claim they are remaining celibate are actually having sex anyway, as abstaining from sex is difficult…

> In 2019, the 4B movement claimed to have 4,000 members! "This movement—known as “the four no’s”—began in 2019. It has since spread..." > Beware articles about problems or trends that neglect to quantify anything. "Despite the solid academic credentials of women in South Korea, according to a study by Statista, the gender pay gap is scandalous: men earn 30% more than women. This makes the country, according to the K…

Pay gap studies are notorious for being overly ignorant of confounding factors. There probably is a pay gap but it’s incredibly hard to quantify and many studies choose to look only at $$ versus benefits (schedule flexibility, maternity leave, part time, etc)

US studies for example don’t always consider that women overindex in less technical careers (teaching, humanities, etc), often those that have lower salaries but significantly higher benefits and more flexibility. Women also overindex in part time positions.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#48

“Single mothers are stigmatized, doctors refuse to give IVF to women without a male partner—even though it’s not illegal—and out-of-wedlock births represent only 2% of the total, compared to the average of 41% for women in the OECD. Marriage and childbirth are closely intertwined; women are pressured to sacrifice their career once they have a child or get married." Is everything described, evil?

Yes.

Consider the direction that the vast majority of countries have been moving in with regards to all these. South Korea appears to not have moved at all.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#49
post #12

> The repercussions of the so-called “birth strike” have been severe for the country. For three consecutive years, the country has had the lowest fertility rate in the world, with an average of 0.78 children per woman. How much of that can be attributed to the birth strike considering South Korea's fertility rate started its latest downward spiral in 2016 and two out of those three years had heavily-enforced lockdown…

Agree, this movement seems almost non-existent.

Seems like SK is more suffering from an overwork culture that leaves little time for anything outside of work. Fastest way to destroy fertility rate is wage slavery.

Re: No dates, no sex, no weddings, no kids

#50
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

So, it's easier to rule Americans than Koreans?

It's easier to allow certain groups of people in and then cater to that group for lifelong votes. This is the strategy of the liberal party in Canada and has been used successfully.

Next call people who opposite any immigration limit racist and create fears in the immigrant population. Use those fears to keep power.

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