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What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

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Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#601

Post by MrDresden »

jdmoreira wrote: post #534
MrDresden wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why waste the money and effort to buy something in the "best" neighborhood? Status symbol? Who cares. For the investment? It doesn't seem like you can afford it, nor need it. Just buy someplace you can afford and make a nice home for your family. If there is a genuine reason why that neighborhood is the best for you and yours, then ofcourse that is a different matter.

In cities like Stockholm the inner city is usually very expensive. I personally love European inner city life. I was raised like that. I like the commerce, the shops, the noise, the casual cycling, subway transportation. Essentially everything. It's a very specific lifestyle that only exists in an area of 10 to 15 sqkm. Outside the city center neighborhoods are essentially dorms.

Being European I have traveled to plenty of it's cities. I don't think I would want to live in the city centers of any of them. And there is really no need for it. Walkability and public transport is usually exceptionally good.

My observation of Stockholm as a tourist is that it is really easy to get around there on a bike, so I don't see the need to live smack in downtown where the price is going to be the highest (especially when you can't afford it).

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#602

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

twixfel wrote: post #597
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're drawing the wrong conclusions from my comment based on your need to vent because you have a chip on your shoulder because you feel like Germany didn't roll the red carped enough for you. Whether you like it or not it's always the immigrants who should integrate into their new country, not the country to change centuries of culture and identity around for the immigrants. Germany is already welcoming eno…

I don't regret my choice, I met a nice woman here and I have a good job. But I don't adopt the unambiguous slave mentality that you advocate and I have my eyes more open about the country's problems than you. >Venting on the internet that the country you voluntarily moved to doesn't give you the special treatment you were expecting, is just laughable and pointless. Yes, and unrolling the red white and black in defenc…

>But I don't adopt the unambiguous slave mentality that you advocate

Sorry, but equating integrating and being assimilated into a developed country to having a "slave mentality" is complete horeshit and makes you look completely out of touch with reality if this is how you see things.

>unrolling the red white and black in defence of the Reich

Where the hell did you come up with this? I never said anything like this. You must be tripping.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#603

Post by ido »

luckylion wrote: post #599
ido wrote: post #577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been living in Berlin for the last 10 year and the prices are making me consider looking outside the city (no other big cities that near Berlin, so there isn't that challenge you speak of). My main issue would be being more socially isolated as all of our local friends are in Berlin, kids having to adapt to new school/kindergarten (& find new friends), new work for my wife who doesn't work remote (but can find…

Yeah, doing it with kids is extra hard. I have friends in Berlin who moved to Prenzlauer Berg in like 2005 and got a great deal. At some point, with kids that apartment just didn't cut it any more, but they can't move too far for the reasons you mention, so they looked long and hard and accepted paying quite a bit more and moving to the other side of the Ring in Pankow. Not as nice, but close enough to keep the kids…

I have many friends in Brandenburg (the state, not the city) and internet speeds tend to actually be great out there from what Ive heard (still in the towns/cities not literally in the middle of nowhere, but there are loads of small to mid sized towns). In fact I believe it may be better than in Berlin!

I wonder if it was because it was easier to upgrade/replace the East German infrastructure & as such it's relatively new/good? Sorta like how nice a lot of the highway network in Poland is, because it was mostly only built in the last couple decades.

BTW Pankow is considered a very nice and desirable (and expensive) part of Berlin to raise a family in :)

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#604

Post by z3t4 »

One major difference between the USA and Sweden is that if you have a bank loan and can't pay it back they will take all your assets, not only those you used for security! So you will be in dept for life!

Another major difference is that education is free! And healthcare is almost free.

In the last 15 years the Swedish population has increased nearly 20% mostly by immigration. Most of the immigrants are Muslims, and are not allowed to pay interest by their religion! Thus the weird housing market.

In the last 10-15 years interest rates has dropped below zero. And property prices has gone up 5x.

Those who didn't want to spend their money in the last 15 years (the baby boomers) now want to spend their money!

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#605

Post by illiarian »

rcarr wrote: post #547
illiarian wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Sweden if you move from Stockholm to Eskilstuna (1h30m drive away) you can find a 5 room 100 sqm apartment in the dead center of the town for the price of a 2 room 45-50 sqm apartment in any of the immediate suburbs of Stockholm. Or, to put it simply, move out of the big city, and the prices drop by a factor of two or more.

This is all well and good but are there jobs there that match the persons skillset or would they have to spend most likely 3-6 years retraining?

The question above was "I work remotely and may consider moving there."

When you work remotely you may want to move anywhere you want. However, there are other things to consider: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35408256 :)

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#606

Post by shagie »

ars wrote: post #356
shagie wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That assumes that the entities buying the housing are subject to death, disease, and divorce. From 2022: Investors bought a record share of homes in 2021. See where. - https://wapo.st/3ZDSZqm Strong Towns from 2022: Corporate Investors Own Nearly Half of This City's Residential Property - https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/5/25/corporate-inve...

Investors are irrelevant, people still live in those houses. Only empty houses actually cause trouble.

Residences owned by corporations funnel wealth away from the community into the hands of the corporation. Renters also tend not to establish as deep community roots as there's no investment in the house or the neighborhood and they may move.

While on the surface that isn't "bad", when this happens in lower income neighborhoods it siphons what little wealth that is there away.

Additionally, as there's no investment in the house (call up the landlord and have them fix it up... in a while), it also means that the properties in the area tend to decrease in quality and make the homes that are owned occupied less valuable over time... and the community there less cohesive.

All these things together make it harder for people (frequently minorities) living in those areas to improve their lives and that of their children (can't leave a house you rent to your children or grandchildren to help them get a firmer financial footing as they reach adulthood).

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#607

Post by helij »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #589
badpun wrote: post #542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The leading countries to rise in the last 30 years, China and Singapore, have active, competent and interventionist governments. Can't wait for the China do collapse under its own mismanagement and the memes like the above can finally die off.

I've been hearing this about both China and EU for the past 20 years. It seens you'll be waiting a while.

I've been hearing this about US, EU, China and a few other places from different people depending which part I was visiting in the world since I know about myself.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#608

Post by bobolino123 »

layer8 wrote: post #351
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

> And it's not just Munich. Every city in Germany has this problem. No, Munich is an outlier. You generally can find apartments under 10€/m² without too much trouble, at least in mid-sized cities. However, it’s true that rents have been rising significantly over the past decade or so.

Frankfurt and Stuttgart are pricey too.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#609

Post by bobolino123 »

dgellow wrote: post #399
watrami wrote: post #103

It seems like it's the same story everywhere I look. Housing is the main driver of inequality and there is little change happening. We have the same problem here in Germany. I am currently living in Munich to finish my CS Master's at TUM and build a startup, and it is absolutely impossible to find anything remotely affordable. I am supported by two startup scholarships and make enough to get by, but no landlord even…

Munich is the most expensive place in Germany, by far. It’s not as extreme everywhere.

Actually it's Sylt, Frankfurt then Munich.

The problem with Munich is that the metropolitan area is f.. expensive as well.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#610

Post by [deleted] »

MrDresden wrote: post #601
jdmoreira wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In cities like Stockholm the inner city is usually very expensive. I personally love European inner city life. I was raised like that. I like the commerce, the shops, the noise, the casual cycling, subway transportation. Essentially everything. It's a very specific lifestyle that only exists in an area of 10 to 15 sqkm. Outside the city center neighborhoods are essentially dorms.

Being European I have traveled to plenty of it's cities. I don't think I would want to live in the city centers of any of them. And there is really no need for it. Walkability and public transport is usually exceptionally good. My observation of Stockholm as a tourist is that it is really easy to get around there on a bike, so I don't see the need to live smack in downtown where the price is going to be the highest (…

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