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What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

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Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#241

Post by jryle70 »

speakfreely wrote: post #215
dangwhy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't claim "wait times" as a positive of letting a bunch of people die or go bankrupt i already covered that under 'access' . If you have access then USA has much lower wait times. Its postive to the people who have access. Your implication that wait times are just natural consequence of more access is also not right. "Commonwealth Fund ranked Canada last among 11 countries surveyed on wait times for specialis…

> If you want the most cutting edge medical care then USA is the no 1 destination for people all over the world. That's a bit like saying "you can find the cleanest air in the world in California". In remote locations in the desert or wilderness that's plausibly possible, but the vast majority of people live in cities with substantial air pollution. Likewise, most Americans do not have access to cutting edge medical…

> Most Americans ... endure what I would generously call apathetic care from their medical providers.

I call BS with "most Americans" or "apathetic care". Feel free if you want to share your anecdote. My personal experience and those I know though, is that the care is top notch. Cutting edge treatment? well I don't know, I was lucky not needing any of that. It's also probably more expensive compared to other countries. However our of pocket pay is very reasonable, and the level of care is excellent.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#242

Post by LegitShady »

xist wrote: post #136
LegitShady wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 3 of the major parties are pro huge immigration. Any discussion to the contrary is labelled racist regardless of a housing and healthcare crisis. Businesses underpay and when they can't find people willing to impoverish themselves to work for them, they apply to the government to bring in "temporary foreign workers" - for things like fast food restaurant workers not essential business, keeping the wages down. Tem…

> Businesses underpay and when they can't find people willing to impoverish themselves to work for them, they apply to the government to bring in "temporary foreign workers" - for things like fast food restaurant workers not essential business, keeping the wages down. > Temporary foreign workers and international students in canada are allowed to buy housing, so aside from renting the rich ones who make it here actua…

Some TFWs and international students some come from wealthy families in their home country and use whatever program they can to get into canada to get a foot in the door, and be allowed to buy a house here. I live in an east indian heavy neighborhood and I know a dozen people who were extremely rich before every coming to canada, far far more than the average canadian.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#243

Post by ClumsyPilot »

notch898a wrote: post #211
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> still gets rejected either for her financial situation or because the rental contract is already set to increase 8% each year - which we simply cannot afford. And it's not just Munich. Every city in Germany has this problem. The logical step, when individuals cannot afford their own rent, companies that need workers will be providing housing to their workers. And they will be able to evict them whenever they feel l…

I would be curious to see what kind of studies in Svalbard have been done on this. Virtually all workers are in company housing. Has it devolved into feudalism in all but name?

The Shard in the centre of London has 5 times more employees than Svalbard does.

They probably have family and/or property in Norway, and some of the best employee protections in the world?

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#244

Post by dogma1138 »

jjoonathan wrote: post #82
dogma1138 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forced rent control definitely causes a problem as it suppresses supply.

We agree that suppressed supply is the problem. You think the suppression is caused by clueless and misguided poor people. I think the suppression is caused by clued-in rich people pursuing enormous financial malincentives. Do you disagree that the malincentives exist? Or do you think that clueless poor people are a more effective political bloc than clued-in rich people pursuing enormous financial malincentives?

You are still missing the point, rent controls restrict supply and even worse mobility they make the market far less efficient and more expensive for the majority of players under pretty much any rent control system.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#245

Post by shagie »

ianai wrote: post #218
nemo44x wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it collapse? There’s insatiable demand for extreme limited property. Interest rate hikes may lower the price of property but the interest will rise proportionately. Do people really think at sone point no one will want premium property and I’ll finally get it cheap? Of course that will never happen.

Eventually death, disease, or divorce will force properties to sell. That will move market values down. Meanwhile, my buddy’s mobile home manufacturer is back to being able to output a home in weeks. Construction has already fallen off a cliff-which makes sense given that’s the easiest to spin up/down of the market. The RE market is responding to the rates. Though, whether it’ll be enough is beyond my knowledge or po…

That assumes that the entities buying the housing are subject to death, disease, and divorce.

From 2022: Investors bought a record share of homes in 2021. See where. - https://wapo.st/3ZDSZqm

Strong Towns from 2022: Corporate Investors Own Nearly Half of This City's Residential Property - https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2022/5/25/corporate-inve...

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#246

Post by LegitShady »

UncleOxidant wrote: post #128
pcthrowaway wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how much of this issue is due to our (enormous) amount of immigration, given that fertility rate has been below the replacement rate since 1970 or so

Countries that have fertility rates below replacement should be encouraging immigration. Otherwise they're going to be facing some serious economic problems as their populations age.

some immigration is different than what canada is doing, which is mass immigration at a rate far outpacing most other countries. nearly 1/4 of canadians are immigrants, and we're allowing so many in per year that our housing and healthcare. Its too expensive to have kids for many young people - I have friends who would like to have them but can't afford it.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#247

Post by AmericanChopper »

brewdad wrote: post #226
AmericanChopper wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s another reason that local governments don’t embrace intensification, which is that they will be responsible for building the infrastructure to support it. Take a look at Jakarta where zoning laws focus heavily on intensification. Housing is cheap, but power cuts are normal, most of the city smells like sewage because you have sewage flowing into storm water infrastructure, the city regularly floods, and parts…

This is easily solved with impact fees. Builders pay a fee in my town of about $30,000 as part of the permit process for a single family home. That money goes towards the necessary infrastructure improvements.

It’s not easily solved at all, because the hard part is planning and building and maintaining the infrastructure. Something local governments frequently reveal themselves incapable of doing, even when they’re sufficiently financed. That’s before you have to contend with the incentives of governance bodies often being not exactly aligned with that outcome. Responsible management of basic services isn’t usually a platform that drives voter engagement. Local governments are incentivised to minimise how much they spend on basic infrastructure, not intentionally create new demand for it.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#248

Post by tptacek »

listenallyall wrote: post #173
tptacek wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a conspiracy theory about a global suit-and-tie version of TED Talks whose members consistently underperform the S&P 500. The World Economic Forum sounds important, like the IMF is, but it's nothing at all like that. It's a convention, in the ComicCon sense, that happens to be frequented by high-status people, because high-status people go where other high-status people go. Ironically, talking about them as i…

Comparing WEF specifically to ComicCon, like it's a harmless goofy diversion, is deceptively dismissive, and surely not an accident on your part. At the very least you could compare it to an industry trade show, like an annual convention of trial attorneys or of insurance adjusters, which is a key vector for introducing and spreading new concepts and ideas in those industries.

Not an accident indeed. The shadowy hand of the WEF reveals itself again!

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#249

Post by LegitShady »

mthoms wrote: post #231
LegitShady wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 3 of the major parties are pro huge immigration. Any discussion to the contrary is labelled racist regardless of a housing and healthcare crisis. Businesses underpay and when they can't find people willing to impoverish themselves to work for them, they apply to the government to bring in "temporary foreign workers" - for things like fast food restaurant workers not essential business, keeping the wages down. Tem…

Are there any economists that support your theory? Namely that (if I understand your point correctly) immigration is hurting the economy more than it’s helping? Everything I’ve seen claims the opposite - but I’m open to new information. Also, what support do you have for the claim that the existence of temporary foreign workers suppress wages for working Canadians? My understanding is that they are performing jobs th…

They aren't doing jobs canadians wont do, they're doing jobs canadians wont do for the wages being offered. If they raised the wages, people would want to do them. Instead companies hire at very low wages, and very few people want to work for them, they apply to bring in TFW who are desperate.

Their presence suppresses the wages because there's a basically unlimited pool of people willing to work for suppressed wages. All businesses have to do is not raise wages and the prevailing wage is whatever they offer. Almost every tim hortons, mcdonalds, burger king, etc in canada is staffed with TFW. I'd rather they raise the wages or go out of business. Instead they import workers and keep wages suppressed.

Re: What broke Sweden? Real estate bust exposes big divide

#250

Post by tptacek »

listenallyall wrote: post #183
tptacek wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way you can tell it's a conspiracy theory is that people talk about the WEF, which has no power other than arranging the name tags on the lunch tables at the gatherings, rather than the actual policy makers making decisions. Try a thought experiment: contravene the will of the World Economic Forum. What happens next? You don't get to go next year? Statistically, that means your company performance will significan…

> no power other than arranging the name tags on the lunch tables The WEF itself would starkly disagree. For more than 50 years, the Forum has engaged global Partners to drive significant impact – creating historic initiatives, industry breakthroughs, economic solutions and tens of thousands of projects and collaborations – improving the state of the world That's a lot more than arranging name tags. https://www.wefor…

The WEF says it's important. Shocking.
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