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San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

sfchronicle.com

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Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#131

Post by rhaway84773 »

agentofoblivion wrote: post #118
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is there in SF politics that you consider "radical"? I mean, I can't disagree that the evidence supports the idea that recent policies there have been ineffective in addressing many of that city's most pressing issues. But "radical" ?

Are you being serious? SF is as much, or more, known for radical left wing politics than it is tech. They basically give homeless people free money, make it legally hard to clear camps, and don’t enforce laws of open, hard drug use and petty theft, leading to the obvious consequences. Basically they make it easy to be a drug addict on the street, and hard to be a police officer, and then wonder why crime and homeless…

Take away the “radical leftist” policy of not building housing for the past several decades and San Francisco’s problems are all solved.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#132

Post by rcarr »

rhaway84773 wrote: post #130
rcarr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right well imagine you’ve just walked into a bar in real life and everyone is having a conversation about crime in the city and a stranger sat in the corner says that their friend was murdered in the 90s. Would you really respond with: > Wow. They were almost the last person murdered in NYC! Stats say murder in NYC ended later that year. Probably not unless you wanted everyone in the bar to look at you with disgust.…

Except you’re not walking into a bar where you’re a highly visible patron among maybe 10-15 others. You’re reading a comment thread where no one even knows you exist and/or are reading the particular comment thread. This is the equivalent of writing a letter to a newspaper’s editor in the old days (with less friction).

If we speak to each other on the internet the same way we speak to each other face to face, it will become a more pleasant place.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#133

Post by mixmastamyk »

agentofoblivion wrote: post #89

One question that’s always top of mind when I hear about the insanity of SF: why on Earth are people with radical, proven ineffective policies voted in time and time again? Whenever I hear from tech people, they think it’s crazy. So if tech has overrun SF, why haven’t the politics become more moderate? At least one of my assumptions must be wrong.

Most people don’t understand economics and confuse cause and effect. Plus, emotional pleas have always had greater pull than rational ones.

They are also so polarized by the media they can’t even entertain practical solutions that existed for decades to centuries.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#134

Post by dehrmann »

trgn wrote: post #57
jleyank wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder whether homeowners talking about more affordable housing realize that includes their own house likely declining in value….

House value means nothing. For home owners, it's a guarantee to be able to stay in place. Californian home owners are all millionaires, but will never see that wealth materialize if they or their children want to stay in the same area.

This isn't how homes are sold to people. They're sold as "investments" and "stores of wealth."

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#135

Post by twelve40 »

Animats wrote: post #74

"downtown " This sounds like the "downtown" real estate interests whining. By "downtown" they mean the area around Embarcadero Center. The working center of SF has been moving south into SOMA and Dogpatch for two decades. There have been desperate efforts to stop this, including the "transit center" and an unnecessary push for tunnels to terminate Caltrain in classic "downtown". Those parts of SF seem to be doing OK.…

SOMA is deserted. I stopped going because it's not much different from my suburban desert anymore, so why go there. Empty offices, shuttered restaurants, very few people.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#136

Post by twelve40 »

bdcravens wrote: post #18

Every city has its glory days and eventual decline. It happened to Detroit; it's happening to SF, and eventually it'll happen to other cities (I see it happening to Houston if the US truly uncouples itself from oil)

it's not a given if they get their head out of their ass. SF has so many good things going for it.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#137

Post by agentofoblivion »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #126
agentofoblivion wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you being serious? SF is as much, or more, known for radical left wing politics than it is tech. They basically give homeless people free money, make it legally hard to clear camps, and don’t enforce laws of open, hard drug use and petty theft, leading to the obvious consequences. Basically they make it easy to be a drug addict on the street, and hard to be a police officer, and then wonder why crime and homeless…

I am being serious. You're describing a highly proscribed area of city governance. Radical left politics generally involves much larger issues, chiefly relating to economic and power relationships between different groups with a society. At least. What's going on in SF has essentially nothing to do with that at all.

They are one and the same. Chesa Boudine was largely responsible, and ran on the platform, of essentially not enforcing laws on drugs and theft. His parents spent decades in prison for murder as a result of their radical leftists activism with the Weather Underground. SF is basically the poster child for putting radical leftists in charge.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#138

Post by carapace »

Der_Einzige wrote: post #99
carapace wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a hard core computer nerd and I'm from SF, grew up here. This is not the nerd city (although we have many fine nerds here!) It's the hippie city. Anyway, we nerds help the normals despite their bullying and lack of respect because we are human beings and humane. It's not their fault they're stupid and ignorant, after all? And do we not enjoy pleasures and rewards beyond their understanding? It's not so bad, being…

Portland, Eugene or are hippy cities. SF isn't a hippy city anymore. The greatful dead went to Eugene OR ever year to "get away from it all" in SF.

> SF isn't a hippy city anymore.

Right, and that's my point: the old timers resent the new wave. The hippies didn't give us the city, we took it from them.

The argument that sways me (as an oldtimer who misses the way it was) is that this is the way of it here: The Ohlone were savagely fucked over by the Spanish, who in turn were run out by the Americans, then the Gold Rush folk gave way eventually to the Beatniks, who then yielded to the Hippies, who have now been displaced by tech bros. Seen from that perspective, we're actually making fantastic progress, in the sense that each wave is less violent than the last, eh?

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#139

Post by pandaman »

te_chris wrote: post #115

Just spent a few days there and man, talk about living off past beauty. It sure is one of the most beautiful urban environments in the world: the geography, the variety of the architecture, but fuck me, so expensive and just weirdly hostile rules. And I live in London so no stranger to shit costing a lot. Was there with my wife and child and tried to go to a cool wine bar at like 5pm, told we weren’t allowed in due t…

>Was there with my wife and child and tried to go to a cool wine bar at like 5pm

It's everywhere in California: minors (under 21 y.o.) are not allowed into bars except on legitimate business (e.g. making a delivery) at any time.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#140

Post by fogzen »

agentofoblivion wrote: post #137
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am being serious. You're describing a highly proscribed area of city governance. Radical left politics generally involves much larger issues, chiefly relating to economic and power relationships between different groups with a society. At least. What's going on in SF has essentially nothing to do with that at all.

They are one and the same. Chesa Boudine was largely responsible, and ran on the platform, of essentially not enforcing laws on drugs and theft. His parents spent decades in prison for murder as a result of their radical leftists activism with the Weather Underground. SF is basically the poster child for putting radical leftists in charge.

Getting rid of cash bail, trying children as children instead of adults, creating a unit to investigate wrongful conviction… these aren’t radical policies.

Boudin did enforce laws on drugs. Multiple drug dealers were prosecuted during his short watch. And overall violent crime fell during that period as well.

Boudin was recalled, despite no real evidence that his policies had significant impact on crime rates.

Our elections are driven by nonsense “left” “right” media hysteria and propaganda, not any sort of fact.

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