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San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

sfchronicle.com

81–90 of 161 posts

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#81
Good. As someone who grew up here, it'll be nice to get back to our original role in American life: open-air asylum for the rest of the country. Literally that's an old joke here: "If you're too crazy for the rest of the country you move to California, and if you're too crazy for California you move to San Francisco." And then under our breathe we add, "And if you're too crazy for SF you move to Berkeley."

This Dot-Com Boom period (roughly 2001 to now) kinda fucked up the city. I can't wait to clear out the folks who were only here for money and hype, and start getting the weirdos and hippies back in.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should expect it given how fast AI is going to hurt a lot of these people It has nothing to do with tangible harm and a lot with the attitude of techno public figures, as well as, in San Francisco, the civic detachment of its tech workers.

Why should we expect "civic attachment" when nerds are literally hardcore bullied from the beginning in our media, in our schools, and now, they're starting getting bullied for being cerebral nerds by the bars of the one city that's supposed to be theirs. I don't blame them tbh. Frankly, society should be very happy uniquely for the "nerds at the HF event" since those nerds are working very hard on open source and de…

It's not a society vs nerds thing. This is specific to SF and the SF tech scene and that scene's relationship to the rest of the community of SF.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#83
post #74

"downtown " This sounds like the "downtown" real estate interests whining. By "downtown" they mean the area around Embarcadero Center. The working center of SF has been moving south into SOMA and Dogpatch for two decades. There have been desperate efforts to stop this, including the "transit center" and an unnecessary push for tunnels to terminate Caltrain in classic "downtown". Those parts of SF seem to be doing OK.…

If you read the downtown plans from SF planning or the mayor's office that the article refers to, it is not just the financial district or union square. Their definition includes areas from Chinatown to Mission Bay, and from Embacadero to Castro along Market. So all of SOMA, but not Dogpatch.

Those parts of SF seem to be doing OK.

SOMA is about 32% vacant. The goal is "Clean, safe and inviting", so I'd say not doing OK right now.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#84
post #39

'verge of collapse' & 'brink of collapse' are some of the most frequently-slung clickbait phrases in the editor's grab-bag. Already collapsed? Not going to collapse? Neither newsworthy. 'about to collapse'? That's your stress response being triggered, to be satisfied by clicking on the headline to ascertain how to either head off the stress source or be infotained by it.

Any thoughts on the content of the article itself?

I'll tell you what - tell me what metric is in question, and what percent decrease of it over what period of time would constitute 'collapse', following which I will read the article and provide my response.

Bonus to incentivize: I'll even be providing the weird mix of native-San-Franciscan-cum-tech-person take, being born & raised in the Sunset. Therefore I promise to infuse it with a sense of entitlement & disaffection, as if it was possible to have any scope on in-migration/emigration policy across city limits.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

after the huggingface event last night a group of us wasn't let into a bar/club because "y'all are nerds, we don't want your patronage" I don't think it's solved enough yet for their taste, what a beautifully schizoid city, never change, we should just throw money at the problem forever as a monument to hubris XD

I'm super interested in this story. Can you elaborate more on the context please?

I will simply leave you with this image by way of explanation: https://thiic.cc/heavy/huggingface_bar.jpg

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should expect it given how fast AI is going to hurt a lot of these people It has nothing to do with tangible harm and a lot with the attitude of techno public figures, as well as, in San Francisco, the civic detachment of its tech workers.

Why should we expect "civic attachment" when nerds are literally hardcore bullied from the beginning in our media, in our schools, and now, they're starting getting bullied for being cerebral nerds by the bars of the one city that's supposed to be theirs. I don't blame them tbh. Frankly, society should be very happy uniquely for the "nerds at the HF event" since those nerds are working very hard on open source and de…

I'm a hard core computer nerd and I'm from SF, grew up here. This is not the nerd city (although we have many fine nerds here!) It's the hippie city.

Anyway, we nerds help the normals despite their bullying and lack of respect because we are human beings and humane. It's not their fault they're stupid and ignorant, after all? And do we not enjoy pleasures and rewards beyond their understanding? It's not so bad, being a nerd.

- - - -

Did you watch "Avenue 5"? That scene where the folks are trying to leave the ship and the captain and chief engineer are trying to stop them... Wooo boy that was a horrifying scene, eh? But you can't just let them leave. You still have to help them as best you can, if only so you can live with yourself, eh?

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#87
post #74

"downtown " This sounds like the "downtown" real estate interests whining. By "downtown" they mean the area around Embarcadero Center. The working center of SF has been moving south into SOMA and Dogpatch for two decades. There have been desperate efforts to stop this, including the "transit center" and an unnecessary push for tunnels to terminate Caltrain in classic "downtown". Those parts of SF seem to be doing OK.…

In the near term, it's more about tax revenue than real estate interests.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#88
I don't know about "verge of collapse", but the city needs to take a long hard look at itself and ask "why do people live in cities", and one reason, other than work, which, no two ways about it, is moving out of the city in various fashions for various reasons (I'm looking at you, prop-C and stripe); one reason people want to live in a city is for the nightlife, where it's a city's density and not the suburbs that's necessary to support it in any meaningful fashion. Why does San Jose not have the same vibrant nightlife? Why does San Francisco make this giant sucking sound for all culture in the bay area? (That's no longer as true as it once was; so much has been pushed into Easy Bay simply due to housing prices in the city.) It's a large collection of suburbia and not actually a city.

This past week, San Francisco took steps to utterly destroy the nightlife scene, by sending subpoenas to all the after-hours venues to cease and desist. Like the Prohibition, this only serves to drive the scene (further) underground, causing it to be more dangerous because the parties aren't going to stop happening, they're going to happen further out from the heart of the city, into being less regulated, and further away from the hospitals which will result in deaths from that whole fentanyl thing.

Without the party scene (which rivals major cities of the world under the metric "can I party from Thursday til Tuesday"), both above and below ground, there's little reason for young adults who enjoy that sort of thing to live in this tiny city now that work remote is viable in many industries.

The industry forced to be in-person is healthcare, and UCSF is a major medical institution in the US and the world, with a major infectious disease center that played an important role in the recent pandemic, so the city has that going for it, but it's only the frontlines of that industry that need to be in the city. Much of that industry is administrators and patient navigators and all that kind of stuff, which happens on the phone, but with VOIP and the Internet, can go fully remote. Genentech (and co), the other major part of that industry, are in South San Francisco, which is technically a different city, despite its name, and far away enough from San Francisco proper that you need a car to get there (or work at Genentech and take their buses).

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#89
One question that’s always top of mind when I hear about the insanity of SF: why on Earth are people with radical, proven ineffective policies voted in time and time again? Whenever I hear from tech people, they think it’s crazy. So if tech has overrun SF, why haven’t the politics become more moderate? At least one of my assumptions must be wrong.

Re: San Francisco could collapse – what should California do about it?

#90
post #47
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any thoughts on the content of the article itself?

It might as well have been written 20 years ago.

The vacancy rate is pretty similar to 20 years ago after the dot com bust. But there is a layer of crime and lawlessness this time that makes it a lot worse, and harder to recover from.
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