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AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

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Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#51

Post by jszymborski »

As always, understanding of nuanced issues will pool at the extremes.

It is both true that:

- Adoption of DL allows corps to launder or inadvertently adopt unethical practices that exacerbate inequalities.

- We have not created AGI, LLMs are not AGI, stable diffusion is not AGI and none of these fields of research are indication we are closer to AGI. This is like thinking Clever Hans is the portent of our future equine overlords.

A great number of people who claim that we are one minute from AGI overlord midnight are doing the old school carnival barker trick. "This snake oil is so potent! It can kill you if you use too much, so be sure to listen carefully to my instructions!"

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#52

Post by The_Colonel »

survirtual wrote: post #29
moonchrome wrote: post #15

I've seen multiple top people in AGI space say that total annihilation threat from AGI exists. I think I've heard Karpathy say something along the lines of worst case scenario of AGI is worse than a nuclear armageddon on Lex Friedman podcast. Honestly the fear of AGI worst-case scenario is worse than any other fear I've experienced. I've accepted the fact that I can die a long time ago, I was afraid but mortality is…

AI can also completely liberate all of us. This fear mongering is irrational. We already live in an extremely advanced reality, with organic life having organic nanomachines performing incredibly complex operations in a universe, in realtime, performing impossibly complex calculations. Even to simulate a square meter of our universe in realtime is outlandishly beyond our compute access. Perhaps AI unleashes the creat…

> AI can also completely liberate all of us.

I agree that this is also possible.

> It is better to try and create the most benevolent AI possible, that is an ally to humanity and invested in our success, than to dwell on our destruction.

I also agree, but who is "we"? I don't think that's a stated goal of companies working on AI research. Their goals seem largely commercial, and they are not regulated. There's nothing stopping a company to produce an autonomous AI for military purposes for example (I'm pretty sure there's a demand for that). Such military AIs probably wouldn't have a very benevolent nature.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#53

Post by IIAOPSW »

verdverm wrote: post #2

There are a lot of religious like beliefs about things as people have moved away from traditional religions. I wonder if it is in our nature to have something bigger than ourselves to believe in based on faith in the message

For a sizeable chunk of people possibly so, but it seems not so universal. Lots of people don't find any form of "just have faith" convincing.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#54

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

verdverm wrote: post #2

There are a lot of religious like beliefs about things as people have moved away from traditional religions. I wonder if it is in our nature to have something bigger than ourselves to believe in based on faith in the message

Perhaps that's because just about anything can be portrayed as a religion: https://slatestarcodex.com/2015/03/25/is-everything-a-religi...

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#56

Post by 23B1 »

lumenwrites wrote: post #20
PaulHoule wrote: post #6

There is "A.I. doomism" in general and there is also a specific cult-like group at the lesswrong website that really is an apocalyptic religion. It is astonishing how anything that deviates from its dogma in any way has to have "trigger warnings" and the senseless comments that users write on anything that suggests there could be intrinsic limits on intelligence. There ideology is such that a higher intelligence is g…

This is an inaccurate and ignorant comment that does not engage with the arguments people on LessWrong are making. If you have something smart to say about why these people are wrong in their beliefs, please do. Name calling a group of people a "cult" or "apocalyptic religion" is not an argument that contributes anything interesting to the conversation. If anyone is actually curious about what these people are saying…

The easiest counterargument is that humans are provably, systematically, and consistently awful at predicting the future.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#57

Post by cma »

ctoth wrote: post #19
PaulHoule wrote: post #6

There is "A.I. doomism" in general and there is also a specific cult-like group at the lesswrong website that really is an apocalyptic religion. It is astonishing how anything that deviates from its dogma in any way has to have "trigger warnings" and the senseless comments that users write on anything that suggests there could be intrinsic limits on intelligence. There ideology is such that a higher intelligence is g…

Paul, can you point at anything at all other than your general vibes that would indicate that anyone from LessWrong intends to literally participate in mass suicide, as your link implies? Did I miss the big group buy of phenobarbital?

Didnt they change recently to a "death with dignity" AI strategy?

Now their leader is saying 50% we should have bombed Wuhan and the only reason for an individual not to firebomb an AI datacenter is because they'll just build back another: https://www.twitter.com/ESYudkowsky/status/16414107296675962...

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#58

Post by ctoth »

version_five wrote: post #43
lumenwrites wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an inaccurate and ignorant comment that does not engage with the arguments people on LessWrong are making. If you have something smart to say about why these people are wrong in their beliefs, please do. Name calling a group of people a "cult" or "apocalyptic religion" is not an argument that contributes anything interesting to the conversation. If anyone is actually curious about what these people are saying…

here's a list of their arguments for why AI is extremely dangerous and extremely likely to kill us all Not familiar with them in the least, but the fact that they're a group that's assembled such a list basically proves they're something of a doomsday cult, no?

Man, wait until you learn about the climate change movement.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#59

Post by charcoalhobo »

skrebbel wrote: post #30
ctoth wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paul, can you point at anything at all other than your general vibes that would indicate that anyone from LessWrong intends to literally participate in mass suicide, as your link implies? Did I miss the big group buy of phenobarbital?

I’m not Paul, but this here has some serious Jonestown overtones: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/j9Q8bRmwCgXRYAgcJ/miri-annou... . It makes Yudkowski seem (to me) like the leader of a suicide cult more than anything else. The argument “yeah but what if he’s right?” is pretty much Pascal’s Wager by now, given how way out there the AI Doomers have gotten. I choose not to worry about the God from the Bible (ie I don’t…

FYI this article was published on April 1 and is labelled as "April Fool's".

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#60

Post by eternalban »

arcticbunny wrote: post #40

I smell the whiffs of the “ Butlerian Jihad”. Luddite anti AI zealots are coming out of the woodwork.

Herbert used the word Jihad to underline that the conflict was spiritual in nature and not restricted to labor issues ("luddites").
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