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AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

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Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#11

Post by The_Colonel »

> Complete with prophecies of imminent fire and brimstone caused by an omnipotent entity that doesn't actually exist.

That seems like an absurd comparison given people like LeCun are actively and intentionally working towards creating this super-human entity.

(Some) scientists were rightfully worried when creating a nuclear bomb as well. The fact that we managed to survive 70 years with its existence does not automatically mean it has to work out with every such invention.

Nukes have the fortunate properties that they are very difficult/expensive to produce even for countries, and then you need very difficult to design and expensive systems to deliver them. It's rather doubtful that AIs will have similar constraints.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#12

Post by gerikson »

drcode wrote: post #7

A religion is arguably when you refuse to engage with other people's arguments Lecun has refused to engage with anyone's arguments, so why are the people worried about AI ex-risk the religion?

> A religion is arguably when you refuse to engage with other people's arguments

I've never heard of that definition.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#13

Post by kibwen »

gerikson wrote: post #9
verdverm wrote: post #2

There are a lot of religious like beliefs about things as people have moved away from traditional religions. I wonder if it is in our nature to have something bigger than ourselves to believe in based on faith in the message

I'm convinced religious beliefs/feelings are an unavoidable emergent property of human minds.

And soon, AI minds.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#14

Post by pclmulqdq »

dralley wrote: post #8

AI optimism is often indistinguishable from "technological manifest destiny" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajGX7odA87k&t=2207s

All technology is built on some sort of "manifest destiny." We are all delusional about how great our new thing is going to be and how much it is going to change the world. Sometimes, like the computer and the web, it turns out to be right. Sometimes, like cryptocurrency and the dirigible, not so much.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#15

Post by moonchrome »

I've seen multiple top people in AGI space say that total annihilation threat from AGI exists.

I think I've heard Karpathy say something along the lines of worst case scenario of AGI is worse than a nuclear armageddon on Lex Friedman podcast.

Honestly the fear of AGI worst-case scenario is worse than any other fear I've experienced. I've accepted the fact that I can die a long time ago, I was afraid but mortality is something everyone has to deal with. But every member of humanity being wiped out at the same time is an existential dread I'm not willing to face.

When you consider the shitshow that has been AI commercialization from big players pressured by market forces and corporate timelines, the boom in capabilities, I have no faith that AI safety issues will be handled in time.

When my best bet for humanity is a global nuclear war resetting civilization to give us a chance to deal with AGI issue down the line - I'm fine with religious doomism.

We've had inquisitions historically, I would very much support a global AI inquisition.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#16

Post by The_Colonel »

CharlesW wrote: post #3

I mean, Yann is paid by Meta to propagate an "only positive vibes" stance. "AI doomism" itself is a ridiculous phrase meant to demonize anyone with legit concerns, of which there are many. I say this as someone who is very excited about recent developments and sees the potential upside as well as anyone, I think.

It's kind of difficult to take these people seriously given they have a strong financial stake in it.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#17

Post by lodovic »

PaulHoule wrote: post #6

There is "A.I. doomism" in general and there is also a specific cult-like group at the lesswrong website that really is an apocalyptic religion. It is astonishing how anything that deviates from its dogma in any way has to have "trigger warnings" and the senseless comments that users write on anything that suggests there could be intrinsic limits on intelligence. There ideology is such that a higher intelligence is g…

It's a pretty scary idea that AI could take a religious stance since its training sets contained religious texts, too. Especially in the context you provide.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#18

Post by version_five »

drcode wrote: post #10
version_five wrote: post #5

I'm happy to see there's still an adult in the room. Andrew Ng has also been very reasonable about the current pop culture hype bubble, while many others have decided to try and use it for attention. As I've said before, there's a clear divide between the actual practitioners, and the "futurists" (Musk etc) on this topic.

Hinton is not an adult? https://twitter.com/JMannhart/status/1641764742137016320?t=I...

People can watch the short clip and decide for themselves. He kind of says "anything's possible" in response to interviewer prompting.

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#19

Post by ctoth »

PaulHoule wrote: post #6

There is "A.I. doomism" in general and there is also a specific cult-like group at the lesswrong website that really is an apocalyptic religion. It is astonishing how anything that deviates from its dogma in any way has to have "trigger warnings" and the senseless comments that users write on anything that suggests there could be intrinsic limits on intelligence. There ideology is such that a higher intelligence is g…

Paul, can you point at anything at all other than your general vibes that would indicate that anyone from LessWrong intends to literally participate in mass suicide, as your link implies? Did I miss the big group buy of phenobarbital?

Re: AI doomism is quickly becoming indistinguishable from an apocalyptic religion

#20

Post by lumenwrites »

PaulHoule wrote: post #6

There is "A.I. doomism" in general and there is also a specific cult-like group at the lesswrong website that really is an apocalyptic religion. It is astonishing how anything that deviates from its dogma in any way has to have "trigger warnings" and the senseless comments that users write on anything that suggests there could be intrinsic limits on intelligence. There ideology is such that a higher intelligence is g…

This is an inaccurate and ignorant comment that does not engage with the arguments people on LessWrong are making. If you have something smart to say about why these people are wrong in their beliefs, please do. Name calling a group of people a "cult" or "apocalyptic religion" is not an argument that contributes anything interesting to the conversation.

If anyone is actually curious about what these people are saying, here's a list of their arguments for why AI is extremely dangerous and extremely likely to kill us all: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/uMQ3cqWDPHhjtiesc/agi-ruin-a...

If anyone has a coherent counter-argument to any of that, I'd really love to hear it.

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