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The roots of Japan's Indian curry

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Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#41

Post by unmole »

kizunajp wrote: post #4
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as man…

I was making the claim that if you went to a restaurant in India, you wouldn't normally find any menu item called "curry", because curry is a genre of foods and not one single item in Indian cuisine.

If you went to a restaurant in Italy, would you find any item called pasta?

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#42

Post by Taywee »

dagmx wrote: post #22
throw0101c wrote: post #17

Tempura also has foreign origins: > Tempura (天ぷら or 天麩羅, tenpura, [tempɯɾa]) is a typical Japanese dish usually consisting of seafood, meat and vegetables that have been battered and deep fried. The dish was introduced by the Portuguese in Nagasaki through fritter-cooking techniques in the 16th century. The word tempura comes from the Latin word tempora, a term referring to times of fasting when the church dictated t…

A lot of Japanese dishes that are popular today have foreign origins. Tempura, curry, ramen, and salmon for sushi. It’s why I find it hilarious when some people obsess over the authenticity of Japanese food and deride fusion cuisine. It (much like most great cuisines) is the result of intermixing and interpretations of dishes. Many Indian dishes too wouldn’t have existed without foreign interaction. Potato dishes obv…

Very many dishes in nearly every cuisine have at least some foreign origins. The majority of spices and seasonings used in most countries originate from many places all over the world.

The idea of any pure culture (locally, ethnically, linguistically, or culinarily) is a complete myth, unless that culture has been entirely isolated from every other culture for its entire development.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#43

Post by Xelynega »

messe wrote: post #15
jmillikin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a language barrier issue, but I have never seen an Indian-style restaurant advertise a dish as "curry" in any country I've visited. Even in Japan (I live in Tokyo and have several インド料理 shops nearby), even if the shop itself has カレー in the name, the menu will say what each thing is (keema, sagh paneer, etc). Imagine sitting down and opening a menu and seeing something labelled "soup" or "sandwich"!

I only know of one Indian restaurant locally here (Ireland) that has a "house curry" listed, but the rest of the menu is as you describe it.

In that case isn't "house curry" similar to "soup of the day"?

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#44

Post by hzay »

Brajeshwar wrote: post #28

I'm not much into food. I'm kinda the "I eat because I have to." My disclaimer is that I'm not an expert but here are a few interesting stories that might be relevant to this story. I come from a place where there is a huge influence of the Japanese and grew up in folklores punctuated with Japanese stories. I got to know a tad more, when one of my school-friend took a keen interest in digging up British and Japanese…

I appreciate your account but

> Also, most Indian Restaurants in India, if not owned, are pretty much run (cooks, etc.) by Nepalese.

Nope. Never seen a Nepalese cook in Chennai or bangalore?

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#45

Post by j45 »

unmole wrote: post #40
dagmx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that “curry” is a British generalization. Indian restaurants were historically called curry houses as a pejorative. India has many dishes that one might consider a curry, but we have no dish called curry. The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). It’s an artifact of colonialism. I also don’t understand why you think it’s vir…

> The only use of the word curry in restaurants is to appeal to British nationals (and anyone they spread their culture to). So, the Curry Points that dot Hyderabad are artefacts of British colonialism? > The generalization into “curry” was one of colonial misinterpretation. Yeah, no. The Telugu kura which is obviously cognate with kari is used to mean, well curry . How about you tone down the misinterpretation and f…

Agreed, and, using a word from one area of India might not be suited for applying to all of it.

That cross pollination of words is something the English language seems to do from time to time.

Every area of the Indian subcontinent was a rich area of its own languages, music, food and more.

For me north, South Indian cuisine and everything in the between is worth getting to know as and where it is.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#46

Post by anuraj »

"Now to be clear, India has no such dish as a curry. No self-respecting Indian restaurant has a "curry" on their menu. They would have a Palak Paneer or a Malai Kofta or a Murgh Makhani - all of which we lump into "curry" - but no "curry"

- This is patently wrong. Curry is a South Indian word referring to vegetables originally (Malakkarry means vegetables). Come to Kerala - you have Moru Curry (Butter Milk Curry) , Erachi Curry (Beef Curry), Tharavu Curry (Duck Curry) etc. The author is a North Indian oblivious of curry history.

"കറി വെപ്പാനെന്തുള്ളത് കാട്ടിൽ, വിറകിന് മാത്രം മുട്ടില്ലിവിടെ"

[kari veppaanenthullathu kaattil, virakinu maathram muttillivide]

"What is there to make curry in the forest? Only firewood is available here" - Kiraatham Thullal by Kunchan Nambiar, Malayalam poet Circa 1750 AD.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#47

Post by j45 »

kizunajp wrote: post #4
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as man…

I was making the claim that if you went to a restaurant in India, you wouldn't normally find any menu item called "curry", because curry is a genre of foods and not one single item in Indian cuisine.

It is a fair claim.

The word rarely exists on its own.

It has roots in some Indian languages, but is not pervasive like it is today across all Indian cuisines.

Part of this is interesting to learn the stories of the early Indians who left India either as indentured servants which turned out to be an updated form of slavery, or emigrating as labourers from north India (and other areas) and how those migrations played out across the colonized world.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#48

Post by Avshalom »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as man…

Well on the italian note calling 'curry' 'a thing' is like calling 'pasta sauce' 'a thing'. Like sure in a very vague sense but if you went into a restaurant and it had "Noodles with pasta sauce" as a dish it would (I hope) make you pause at least.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#49

Post by j45 »

Taywee wrote: post #42
dagmx wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of Japanese dishes that are popular today have foreign origins. Tempura, curry, ramen, and salmon for sushi. It’s why I find it hilarious when some people obsess over the authenticity of Japanese food and deride fusion cuisine. It (much like most great cuisines) is the result of intermixing and interpretations of dishes. Many Indian dishes too wouldn’t have existed without foreign interaction. Potato dishes obv…

Very many dishes in nearly every cuisine have at least some foreign origins. The majority of spices and seasonings used in most countries originate from many places all over the world. The idea of any pure culture (locally, ethnically, linguistically, or culinarily) is a complete myth, unless that culture has been entirely isolated from every other culture for its entire development.

A lot of Indian dishes have Persian, Mughal influences.

Re: The roots of Japan's Indian curry

#50

Post by anon291 »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #3

Interesting! I take issue with the common claim that 'curry' isn't a thing in a 'real' Indian restaurant. I did a quick survey online and could not find a single solitary Indian restaurant menu without curry on it. From the fanciest to the common takeout joint. There are even chains like 'Curry House'. Let's tone down the virtue signaling in food reviews. It's silly. There are 150 languages in India; there are as man…

I mean there is no dish that is curry similar to how sandwich isn't a good. Sandwiches are a class of food with very disparate things being called sandwiches. Same with curries. The existence of sandwich shops does not mean there is a singular dish called sandwich
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