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CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

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Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#81

Post by haswell »

shadowgovt wrote: post #71
haswell wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one died in the East Palestine incident. Hard to see the equivalence. It seems very premature to draw such a conclusion. If people start dying of cancer in high numbers a few years down the line, any early claims about the non-impact of this spill will age poorly. Regarding Katrina, we have the benefit of hindsight and enough time passing to have gotten a handle on the impact and it’s worth noting that those 1,4…

It's not premature when after Katrina, by this point in time, the death toll was over 100. The East Palestine disaster is still clocking a zero (thankfully).

The death toll at this time during Katrina tells us nothing about what to expect in this completely orthogonal scenario, unless you believe that the mortality associated with a category 5 hurricane plays out on the same timescale as exposure to these particular chemicals. It's simply not a useful analogy.

I think it would also be unwise to draw unfounded conclusions about deaths-to-come as if they're some foregone conclusion, because we are in a stage of not knowing the full impact of what happened. At the same time, we also live in a world where we now understand the long term impacts of things like asbestos and a myriad of other chemicals/substances, and concern seems warranted.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#83

Post by gfosco »

asynchronous wrote: post #2

Hmm. How about that. Might be a bigger deal then originally thought.

Many people knew it was a bigger deal, with a casual glance at the chemicals involved. It has been a typical snowjob because the media likes the people in charge.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#84

Post by shadowgovt »

haswell wrote: post #81
shadowgovt wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not premature when after Katrina, by this point in time, the death toll was over 100. The East Palestine disaster is still clocking a zero (thankfully).

The death toll at this time during Katrina tells us nothing about what to expect in this completely orthogonal scenario, unless you believe that the mortality associated with a category 5 hurricane plays out on the same timescale as exposure to these particular chemicals. It's simply not a useful analogy. I think it would also be unwise to draw unfounded conclusions about deaths-to-come as if they're some foregone co…

But this is neither the first spill of vinyl chloride nor the first train derailment releasing toxic chemicals. We actually have plenty of data on these kinds of disasters to have a fairly confident model of what to expect.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#85

Post by ALittleLight »

shadowgovt wrote: post #65
darth_avocado wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And cleared to return? These people got sick doing door to door surveys, meaning people were back at home. This is ridiculous. Even with the above, they are “unsure” if it was related to anything else like “fatigue”. Like come on.

Human health is a complicated thing. Talk to people all day about symptoms they're experiencing and you can develop psychosomatic effects. Especially if you're over-worked and that kind of censusing isn't your day-to-day. Not to say nothing happened to them. Just that medical causality is really complicated.

Truly the mind and body are mysterious things. For example, if you walk around in an area where toxic chemicals are burning you can also feel ill. We have no way of knowing what the causes are.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#86

Post by Nathanba »

GalenErso wrote: post #59
abrodersen wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

3.6 roentgen? Not great, not terrible.

Yes, but it's not exactly the same situation. "The EPA’s equipment isn’t able to detect lower levels of Butyl Acrylate that can still pose a threat to human health." In Chernobyl, the Soviets had the opposite problem: the maximum concentration their standard equipment could read was far below the real level.

that's a far better problem to have because you'll at least have the indication that you are maxing out your equipment

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#87

Post by junofan »

shadowgovt wrote: post #65
darth_avocado wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And cleared to return? These people got sick doing door to door surveys, meaning people were back at home. This is ridiculous. Even with the above, they are “unsure” if it was related to anything else like “fatigue”. Like come on.

Human health is a complicated thing. Talk to people all day about symptoms they're experiencing and you can develop psychosomatic effects. Especially if you're over-worked and that kind of censusing isn't your day-to-day. Not to say nothing happened to them. Just that medical causality is really complicated.

The CDC is full of shit. It’s not complicated.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#88

Post by cwkoss »

I'm really worried about the effects on the food supply chain. The plume of chemical vapors covered a significant proportion this country's breadbasket. Corn, wheat and soybean fields got sprinkled with carcinogens, they will be harvested, turned into flours and processed derivatives, and could end up in practically any processed food on grocery store shelves.

Does anyone have a reassuring reason why I shouldn't be worried about this? Does the food industrial complex have controls to prevent chemically contaminated grain from getting into processed food supply chains? Is there a reason to believe the government is regulating this competently?

I think I'm going to try to avoid processed food and buy produce as locally as possible for a few years (which also has some other benefits anyways). But, am I being overly paranoid?

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#89

Post by cwkoss »

ummonk wrote: post #79

It’s possible there is a benign explanation (spring is allergy season after all), but it’s insane that the government hasn’t been erring in the side of caution throughout this incident.

Not sure whether I'd feel better if the people running our government were greedy psychopaths or just horribly incompetent.

Re: CDC team studying East Palestine train derailment fell ill during investigation

#90

Post by shadowgovt »

ALittleLight wrote: post #85
shadowgovt wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human health is a complicated thing. Talk to people all day about symptoms they're experiencing and you can develop psychosomatic effects. Especially if you're over-worked and that kind of censusing isn't your day-to-day. Not to say nothing happened to them. Just that medical causality is really complicated.

Truly the mind and body are mysterious things. For example, if you walk around in an area where toxic chemicals are burning you can also feel ill. We have no way of knowing what the causes are.

But toxic chemicals weren't burning at the time they walked around, right?
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