Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean given the current state. The technology is already sufficiently advanced and in so many peoples hands that "stopping" it now is just an exercise in pushing it underground. Only the opposite can be a useful safeguard. Rapid evolution is well underway. Lone individuals are able to push the envelope of what's possible even with just a new basic interop, maybe in an afternoon. It's much too late to be discussing t…
It's almost impossible to tell. Yes, plenty of low hanging fruit around; Heck, I can probably literally ask chatGPT to implement for me a few ideas I've got. OTOH, I've known since secondary school of two distinct ways to make a chemical weapon using only things commonly found in normal kitchens, and absolutely none of the post 9/11 aftershock attacks that got in the news over the next decade did anything remotely so…
If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
251–260 of 475 posts
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think Eliezer Yudkowsky is very good at bridging the gap with other people in conversations, because most people haven't thought about this as much. However, while it's terrifying and I hate it, and I keep trying to convince myself that he's wrong, I believe him. The first super-intelligent AI will be an alien kind of intelligence to us. It will not have any of the built-in physical and emotional responses we…
> An AI trained to end cancer might just figure out a plan to kill everyone with cancer. An AI trained to reduce the number of people with cancer without killing them might decide to take over the world and forcibly stop people from reproducing, so that eventually all the humans die and there is no cancer -- technically it didn't kill anyone! I don't understand this and other paperclip maximizer type arguments. If a…
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#253Obviously as I got older and went on to learn about AI and neural nets in university my opinions on this subject matured. Instead of worrying about killer robots my thoughts became more nuanced, however what didn't change was my fear – if anything this increased from a silly childhood fear of a terminator-like robot, to unleashing an uncontrollable super AI which is indifferent to human life.
Finding Eliezer's work sometime in the early 2010s was almost a therapeutic experience for me. Finally someone understood and was talking about the kind of concerns I had and was accused of being a lunatic for thinking.
My primary concerns with AI basically boil down to two things:
1. Politics is largely a power struggle. Democracies give power to the collective, but this power is cemented by the reality that political leaders and institutions could not function without taxation and labourers.
The reason the governments can't just do things that are deeply unpopular and suppress any public revolts with armed responses is because eventually you will either have to kill everyone or everyone will just stop working in protest. Either way the entire system will collapse.
AI being able to create wealth without human labours and industrialised weaponry fundamentally removes the power dynamic needed to support democratic societies – you cannot withhold labour and you cannot overpower the state with force.
At the same time it would also make humans a waste of resources to those in power, as the unemployed masses are basically just leeches on the resources and space of the state – resources which could otherwise be hoarded by those in power.
If super AGI systems ever exist, the state will be all-powerful while having even less incentive to care about your opinions as it does a rat's.
2. Super-intelligence is fundamentally uncontrollable. I can't even be bothered to argue this point it's that self evident. If you disagree you either don't understand how modern AI systems work, or you're not thinking about the control problem deeply enough.
But the argument here is simple – all other technologies with destructive capabilities rely on human decision making. No gun is ever shot, no war is ever started, no nuke is ever dropped without a human decision maker. Super-AI removes this control from us and requires a kind of hopeium that AI will just be nice to us and care about improving our standards of living. And for those who want to argue "you can just program it to be good" – no you can't, for the most part we have no clear understanding of how advanced AI systems of today internally operate.
The alignment conversation is fundamentally pointless in regards to a super-intelligence because you can not reason with any level of certainty about the alignment of an intelligence far superior to your own.
Instead we should assume unalignment by default because even if you assume we can somehow create an aligned super-intelligence the likelihood that eventually an AI system would be created which is unaligned is practically 100% – this is true even if you assume humans will never intend to create it. Why? Because in a world where we can all create a super-intelligent aligned AIs, you also have near-infinite opportunities for someone to create an unaligned one.
And here's another statement you should assume by default – the only world in which nukes aren't going to be used destructively again is a world in which humans or nukes no longer exist. The same will be true for AI systems, but this time the barrier for creating destructive AI is likely going to be orders of magnitude lower than that of nukes, so unlike nuclear holocaust we don't even have probabilities on our side here.
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Look, we're doomed. Progress isn't going to stop and AGI isn't going to be the fairytale people are crossing their fingers for. I don't quite know why no one really seems to have clocked onto this yet, but this will soon become obvious, by which time it will be too late.
Those who think AI is going to improve their productivity are suffering from some kind of delusion in which they believe their ability to type text in a website and copy and paste its output is a marketable skill. It's not, and you're going to be unemployed by tools like GPT in the near-future even without the existential risk posed by super-AGI.
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If it turns out that I'm not talking to real people then it doesn't make much of a difference because I don't actually perceive these messages as anything other than pixels on a screen anyway. It matters a lot to me because the whole point of commenting here (or anywhere) is to talk to other humans, not just to talk to myself.
> ..whole point of commenting here (or anywhere) is to talk to other humans.. honestly, if i can't tell the difference between an AI and a human here then why does the difference matter? If every comment on this story was AI generated except for mine I still received the same insight, enjoyment, and hit of dopamine. I don't think I really care between communicating with an AI or human if i can't tell the difference.
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#255Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
On Twitter, it was "multi-blillionaires [Elon Musk] want to keep us down!" In the HN open letter thread it was "All the companies falling behind want a chance to catch up." Now it's "Gary Marcus". The letter was signed by a lot of people, including many AI researchers, including people working on LLMs. Any dismissal that reduces to [one incumbent interest] opposes this" is missing the mark. A lot of people, incumbent…
There are actually no relevant experts in the field of artificial general intelligence, or the safety thereof. No one has defined a clear path to build such a thing. Claiming to be an expert in this field is like claiming to be an expert in warp drives or time machines. Those calling for a halt in research are merely ignorant, or attention seeking grifters. Their statements can be dismissed out of hand regardless of…
But that doesn't make me sanguine about them. The printing press was amazing and it required new social conceptions (copyright). Nuclear weapons did "little" other than amplify human destructive capability but required a whole lot of thought on how to deal with it, some of it very strange like MAD and the logic of building doomsday devices. We're in the middle of dealing with other problems we barely understand from the extension of communications technology that may already have gotten out of hand.
We seem like we're limited in our habits of social reflection. We seem to prefer the idea that we can so we must, and if we don't someone else will in an overarching fundamentally competitive contest. It deprives us of the ability to cooperate thoughtfully in thinking about the ends. Invention without responsibility will have suboptimal and possibly horrifying outcomes.
(* I am much less certain that there isn't some combination system or future development that could result in an autonomous self-directed AGI. LLMs alone probably not, but put an LLM in an embodied system with its own goals and sensory capacities and who knows)
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#257The letter should instead simply have clarified the risks and outlined a sensible, actionable plan to promote responsible development alongside the inevitable march of progress.
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#258I read the times article, and I also watched Lex Fridman's talk with Eliezer Yudkowsky. Frankly I don't think he is qualified, and I don't understand why anyone is even giving him any credence. His argument is literally: > A mis-aligned super AGI will result in the death of humanity I ask, how . He is making reductive logical leaps that don't make sense. It's FUD.
There does not need to be a "how", as you put it. The logic is "Maybe we should tread carefully when creating an intelligence that is magnitudes beyond our own". The logic is "Maybe we should tread carefully with these technologies considering they have already progressed to the point where the creators go 'We're not sure what's happening inside the box and it's also doing things we didn't think it could do'".
To just go barreling forward because "Hurr durr that's just nonsense!" is the height of ignorance and not something I expect from this forum.
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#259prompt: what is the third word in this sentence gpt4: third why are we afraid of this thing exactly? sure, it will improve, especially with the plugin story, but the fundamental shortcomings that underpins how it actually works won't go away anytime soon. Many people are spooked, because for the first time ever a computer can somewhat coherently understand and output natural language. As Stephen Wolfram pointed out,…
Re: If AI scaling is to be shut down, let it be for a coherent reason
#260Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well the first thing we can do is start disconnecting safety critical infrastructure from the Internet and/or radio networks... This stuff should never have been online in the first place.
100% agree. Maybe there should exist a separate network for those or something.