Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection • Hacker News Board

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#171

Post by belter » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

closewith wrote: post #82

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it. My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained to them why I don't use it, and they didn't have a problem with it. Sometimes, all people need to know is 'no' and most of the time they don't even need an explanation.

In large swathes of the world, refusing to use WhatsApp means losing contact with the majority of people you know. It's the de facto communications method in many countries.

And I confess to have done that, to achieve exactly those expected consequences... :-)

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#172

Post by ashwagary » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 3:36 PM UTC

taude wrote: post #136

gman83 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of Facebook where I live, "Well don't just use their services then" is simply impossible. Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it.

WhatsApp is the one app that I continue to use by them. Aren't they only able to collect meta-data on the conversations and not see any of the texts themselves? Also, no ads yet, so that's a win for me. Everytime I've tried moving people over to Signal/Telegram, etc. we try it for a week and then go back to WhatApp because of so many other groups on there....

>Aren't they only able to collect meta-data on the conversations and not see any of the texts themselves.

After seeing the lengths various govts will go to for full text access, I highly doubt it. There is also no way to reliably prove the e2ee claims of WA, so I would remain skeptical.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#173

Post by irrational » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 3:37 PM UTC

bilekas wrote: post #12

This is still a bit insane to me. If I understand correct, you have to fill a form with a justification why you object, and then Meta will decide if you can be removed from the detailed data collection ? Privacy is a basic human right, and the strawman argument of "Well don't just use their services then" is ridiculous with their influence. Also them touting to "connected the world" When in reality is "connecting to…

Going to the toilet is also a basic human right, yet many places don’t have widespread free public toilets. It doesn’t seem like a basic human right has inherent allowances.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#174

Post by 1659447091 » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 3:44 PM UTC

closewith wrote: post #92

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a country where WhatsApp is used by almost everyone. I uninstalled it 2 years ago and told my contacts that they can find me on Telegram if they'd like to contact me. Most of my friends and family switched to Telegram, and I'm really grateful for that. I don't miss any updates, and I'm able to communicate on a platform I like. In the beginning, they found it odd, but eventually started to like it and some n…

My honest reply is that you don't know the conversations you were excluded from because of this decision.

I look at this as being more of a hidden blessing. The people I had been actual friends with, not just acquaintances, had no problems adding Signal. It was mostly for expat friends since in my part of the US we just SMS/iMessage, and we have group messages on Signal for the couple of mixed-location mutual friends. They still use WhatsApp for their other contacts but turns out this filtered for the people that cared enough if I were in their life or not.

Even after making the effort to keep up with the ones that only wanted to use WhatsApps, through email or regular text message, they couldn't be bothered. I guess I have moved into the point in my life where I prefer the quality of friends who wanted me around for more than being an extra body to fill out their party guest list (and similar).

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#175

Post by rendall » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 3:50 PM UTC

redeeman wrote: post #89

jacquesm wrote: post #84

Meta is way out of line. There is absolutely no way that the EU is going to allow Meta to break the law at scale without regulators throwing a fit. They might even get to be made into an example of what happens when you repeatedly try to knowingly break the law.

[flagged]

> meta knows that they are far far more popular in the population than politicians

Not sure where you live, but in Europe people are generally - with acknowledged caveats and exceptions - but generally speaking behind their governments. Politicians are indeed far more popular than Meta.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#176

Post by rendall » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 3:54 PM UTC

wkat4242 wrote: post #124

jacquesm wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very far cry from the claim that the EU serves at the pleasure of US megacompanies, in fact it documents the opposite: the US megacompanies try everything they can to game the system but end up being fined by the EU in amounts that definitely move the needle. The GDPR is EU law, not country law. Whether member states are able to act effectively with companies playing both ends against the middle is another m…

Yes that's why I said I agree with your overall point. But laws such as GDPR are only as good as their enforcement. It would be better if there was a European privacy regulator directly under the EU instead of big tech being able to cherry pick the country that gets to supervise them. But no the EU is not serving the US big tech industry no. I'm just remarking that the system isn't perfect and there doesn't seem to b…

Is it true that Ireland "supervises" Meta in that sense? If I have a complaint under GDPR, I file a complaint locally and not with Irish regulators.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#177

Post by malka » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 4:01 PM UTC

bilekas wrote: post #122

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it. My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained to them why I don't use it, and they didn't have a problem with it. Sometimes, all people need to know is 'no' and most of the time they don't even need an explanation.

Ignoring the red flag the company would require whatsapp, I can easily see a company not forcing you to use it and being okay. But as op mentioned > kids' sports activities and parent groups Try telling your kids football team coach that you object to Whatsapp and your kids friends' parents that you will not join Facebook for privacy reasons, it's a much harder ask, they might say fine, but you can't expect other peo…

Then, lie.

"I can't because my Facebook got hacked, and I got banned from Facebook. I tried multiple time to recreate an account but it was banned each time :('

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#178

Post by NayamAmarshe » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 4:02 PM UTC

rndmio wrote: post #123

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to be honest, I realize that, and I'm absolutely fine with it. Maybe some won't be, but the path of idealism isn't always the most convenient.

Tbh I'm kind of amused that you rail against WhatsApp and then went and installed Telegram rather than Signal.

I have done my research well and I still support Telegram. I don't think Signal has what is needed to rival WhatsApp.

Telegram is a much better option that does not sell your user data and still has the best privacy options. Where most people like to disagree is the security part, but E2EE is not as important to me as long as my privacy is respected.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#179

Post by NayamAmarshe » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 4:05 PM UTC

tcfhgj wrote: post #131

duud wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Telegram more privacy preserving than WhatsApp?

It isn't. It creates massive barriers for using e2ee

I get where you're coming from but Telegram is objectively better than WhatsApp due to several reasons:

- Privacy controls for each user.

- No hard requirement for a phone number.

- Cloud encryption.

- Open Source clients.

- Telegram's track record.

- Business model not revolving around selling user data.

WhatsApp is a black box and nobody has any good arguments for it other than 'supposed' E2EE that nobody knows anything about. The fact that WhatsApp's T&C forbid you from even reverse engineering the obfuscated binaries and Facebook being the force behind WhatsApp, I'm still surprised that people take their E2EE claim seriously.

It's like me promising you that I'm not looking at you, while I stand facing you, right behind you.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#180

Post by NayamAmarshe » Fri, Mar 31, 2023, 4:07 PM UTC

jen20 wrote: post #139

duud wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Telegram more privacy preserving than WhatsApp?

I do wonder about that: moving from WhatsApp to Telegram appears to be a case of moving from the frying pan into the fire. To Signal seems somewhere more reasonable.

I don't think Signal has what it takes to combat Facebook's monopoly. It's more inconvenient than WhatsApp, why would people even switch?

Telegram on the other hand does not compromise on features and user experience and still is able to deliver a system that doesn't disrespect the user data.