Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 241 posts

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#121

Post by mlatu »

danielheath wrote: post #100
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to be honest, I realize that, and I'm absolutely fine with it. Maybe some won't be, but the path of idealism isn't always the most convenient.

Taking the consequences works fine if you're not responsible for anyone but yourself. "Sorry kids, you aren't going to your friends parties or playing sports with them because my ideals conflict with your reality" is not a tenable position.

you forgot something... here, just add:

"your mileage may vary"

and bob's your aunty

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#122

Post by bilekas »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #64
gman83 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of Facebook where I live, "Well don't just use their services then" is simply impossible. Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it.

> Almost all of my kids' sports activities and parent groups are on WhatsApp, I have to use it. My company asked me to install WhatsApp once, but I explained to them why I don't use it, and they didn't have a problem with it. Sometimes, all people need to know is 'no' and most of the time they don't even need an explanation.

Ignoring the red flag the company would require whatsapp, I can easily see a company not forcing you to use it and being okay.

But as op mentioned

> kids' sports activities and parent groups

Try telling your kids football team coach that you object to Whatsapp and your kids friends' parents that you will not join Facebook for privacy reasons, it's a much harder ask, they might say fine, but you can't expect other people to change their behavior based on your beliefs. No matter how right you are.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#123

Post by rndmio »

NayamAmarshe wrote: post #95
closewith wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My honest reply is that you don't know the conversations you were excluded from because of this decision.

And to be honest, I realize that, and I'm absolutely fine with it. Maybe some won't be, but the path of idealism isn't always the most convenient.

Tbh I'm kind of amused that you rail against WhatsApp and then went and installed Telegram rather than Signal.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#124

Post by wkat4242 »

jacquesm wrote: post #119
wkat4242 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is the sort of thing that I'd be happy if it wasn't dumped into HN. I agree with you but the OP has a bit of a point when it comes to the Irish privacy regulator. It's not the EU as a whole but the way they can pick the country that most suits them. Ireland gets a substantial portion of its GDP from big tech so they are pretty receptive to their point of view and often Ireland has to be persuaded to give highe…

That's a very far cry from the claim that the EU serves at the pleasure of US megacompanies, in fact it documents the opposite: the US megacompanies try everything they can to game the system but end up being fined by the EU in amounts that definitely move the needle. The GDPR is EU law, not country law. Whether member states are able to act effectively with companies playing both ends against the middle is another m…

Yes that's why I said I agree with your overall point.

But laws such as GDPR are only as good as their enforcement. It would be better if there was a European privacy regulator directly under the EU instead of big tech being able to cherry pick the country that gets to supervise them.

But no the EU is not serving the US big tech industry no. I'm just remarking that the system isn't perfect and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of drive to improve it.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#125

Post by Nextgrid »

ZacnyLos wrote: post #25

When the EU introduced the ability to opt out of being forced to save cookies on devices, malicious or lazy companies adopted hostile user unclicking forms. The same is now true of Facebook. Capitalists will always be against the convenience of users.

The user-hostile forms aren't actually compliant with the regulation - any form that makes it easier to accept than to decline is against the GDPR and would not count as valid data processing consent, thus you may as well not have one and track by default.

The reason those forms proliferated is because a few snake-oil vendors (TrustArc, etc) sell fake compliance solutions that merely look compliant but actually annoy most people into accepting which is preferred by their (scummy) customers instead of actually-compliant solutions (would put them out of business or force them to severely trim down the marketing/advertising teams).

Since there is no significant enforcement of the regulation, these practices persist.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#126

Post by bilekas »

favsq wrote: post #120
Nextgrid wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Counterpoint: I do not use any of their services when browsing non-Facebook websites, yet most sites still attempt to load FB tracking scripts.

You should configure your browser properly so it doesn't contact 3rd parties while you are browsing.

But the onus shouldn't be on a 3rd party internet user.

It's not feasible to ask everyone to even understand how to do that.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#127

Post by Nextgrid »

raverbashing wrote: post #38
williamvds wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see it as stupid. I see it as an intentional delay tactic to maneuver around a regulator which, so far, acts far too slowly and imposes weak fines in response to flagrant privacy lawbreaking. As long as Facebook can treat the fines as a cost of doing business they're happy. That, and as long as their (bullshit) value proposition of personalising ads by collecting as much personal data as possible is unaffecte…

Yeah it definitely makes sense from their side. But trying to spite the regulation can definitely backfire

It hasn't for 5 years, and if their business is inherently incompatible with the regulation, then making some money from spiting the regulation for as long as possible is better than complying and not making money to begin with.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#128

Post by jacquesm »

wkat4242 wrote: post #124
jacquesm wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very far cry from the claim that the EU serves at the pleasure of US megacompanies, in fact it documents the opposite: the US megacompanies try everything they can to game the system but end up being fined by the EU in amounts that definitely move the needle. The GDPR is EU law, not country law. Whether member states are able to act effectively with companies playing both ends against the middle is another m…

Yes that's why I said I agree with your overall point. But laws such as GDPR are only as good as their enforcement. It would be better if there was a European privacy regulator directly under the EU instead of big tech being able to cherry pick the country that gets to supervise them. But no the EU is not serving the US big tech industry no. I'm just remarking that the system isn't perfect and there doesn't seem to b…

So far most of the rulings have followed the pattern predicted before the GDPR was enacted, and the fines have been rising steadily for repeat offenders.

FB is asking to be made into an example. And yes, you are right, an EU privacy regulator would be good to have but the EDPB is doing a reasonably good job of supervising the member states so far and as the law becomes more settled (and respected) I would expect differences between countries to be leveled. Time will tell.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#129

Post by mvuksano »

closewith wrote: post #92
NayamAmarshe wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a country where WhatsApp is used by almost everyone. I uninstalled it 2 years ago and told my contacts that they can find me on Telegram if they'd like to contact me. Most of my friends and family switched to Telegram, and I'm really grateful for that. I don't miss any updates, and I'm able to communicate on a platform I like. In the beginning, they found it odd, but eventually started to like it and some n…

My honest reply is that you don't know the conversations you were excluded from because of this decision.

And that's a good thing maybe.

Re: Meta wants EU users to apply for permission to opt out of data collection

#130

Post by scrollaway »

xorfish wrote: post #87
scrollaway wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because WhatsApp is the primary mode of communication for hundreds of millions of people across the EU.

That is the case, but banning it just for a few weeks will change that without much disruption. Most people are aware that Signal exist and switch the moment WhatsApp stops working.

This is some bubble heavy wishful thinking.

Last time WhatsApp was down for just a few hours it made international news.

Post reply on HN