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Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

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Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#111

Post by londons_explore »

ben-schaaf wrote: post #34
windowsrookie wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's definitely not "dead". As commented above me, there have been massive improvements. 20 years ago laptops had two hours of battery life. Today a MacBook has 20+ hours of battery life. Obviously many components have become more efficient, but battery improvements have also contributed to that large increase in battery capacity.

The iBook G3 had a 45Wh battery which is only slightly less than a M2 air, and barely under half of the maximum you can take on a plane. Battery development has led to smaller, lighter and cheaper batteries in laptops but not really to an increase in capacity.

Many laptops now are 99.6 Watt hours.

The 100Wh battery limit means they have little incentive to further improve battery technology. Any increased storage capacity wouldn't be legal to fly with, so all it could do is make the laptop very slightly thinner or lighter.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#112

Post by JohnClark1337 »

Retric wrote: post #96
rbanffy wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. This seems like an odd choice - unless you already bought a supply of lead-acid batteries for the next 50 years or so. I've read about a car using supercapacitors in the regenerative brakes to capture energy at high current and, then let it trickle back into the main batteries (or dr…

This is a classic, it isn’t broken don’t fix it situation. Many laptops had both a lithium ion battery and a watch battery used to keep the bios and an internal clock running after the battery died. https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/why-does-my-motherboard-have-a...

[dead]

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#113

Post by RRRA »

sorenjan wrote: post #107
alkonaut wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The powerwall use case will only grow when people get solar panels and when rural areas in countries lacking power infrastructure eletrify. But while that use case doesn't care as much about weight, bulk, charge rate and % capacity as car batteries, in return they are very sensitive to cost and the market will (depending on how cheaply recycling can be done) likely be filled with used car-batteries with degraded capa…

One drawback of using lots of lithium batteries in your home is that they might experience thermal runaway and burn your house down. Not having to worry about that should have some additional value.

Most new solar installations now use LiFePO4 which apparently is much safer on that runaway side...

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#114

Post by DennisP »

mabbo wrote: post #63

Lithium ion batteries set the standard because they have an acceptable level of all the key metrics: energy storage by weight; energy storage by volume; discharge rate; charging rate; production costs. Every single one of these big breakthrough announcements touts how great this new tech is- in just one or two particular metrics. The problem is that Li-Ion batteries are just barely acceptable in all of those metrics.…

Here are the specs on the Amprius silicon-anode battery, currently shipping in low volume:

https://amprius.com/products/

That's better on all the metrics you listed except cost, which it doesn't mention. Whatever their current cost is, it should drop significantly once they complete their factory in 2025.

https://amprius.com/facility/

Most of the battery is standard lithium-ion, the anode is a drop-in replacement.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#115

Post by _nalply »

ngrilly wrote: post #18

Why is it called anode-free when it still has a copper collector with a special coating? Yes, they removed the graphite, but they didn’t remote the entire “anode”. Or is it because the collector and the coating are not technically considered as an electrode?

I wondered about that too then I realized what an anodeless battery would really, literally mean: if you charge it, you pump electrons into it, so it gets somewhat electrically negative, and if you discharge it, you let the electrons flow out of it. To be pedantic, this is not really anodeless, this would be just a battery having only one electric contact switching roles between a cathode and an anode.

Then I started to wonder: what if this really could be done? I am afraid not, because you need two contacts to create a potential difference, don't you?

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#116

Post by tromp »

DennisP wrote: post #114
mabbo wrote: post #63

Lithium ion batteries set the standard because they have an acceptable level of all the key metrics: energy storage by weight; energy storage by volume; discharge rate; charging rate; production costs. Every single one of these big breakthrough announcements touts how great this new tech is- in just one or two particular metrics. The problem is that Li-Ion batteries are just barely acceptable in all of those metrics.…

Here are the specs on the Amprius silicon-anode battery, currently shipping in low volume: https://amprius.com/products/ That's better on all the metrics you listed except cost, which it doesn't mention. Whatever their current cost is, it should drop significantly once they complete their factory in 2025. https://amprius.com/facility/ Most of the battery is standard lithium-ion, the anode is a drop-in replacement.

It mentions lasting for 200-1200 cycles, which (besides a suspiciously large range compared to Li-ion's 500-1000 cycles) is not better on all mentioned metrics.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#117

Post by infogulch »

cryptoegorophy wrote: post #110
mabbo wrote: post #63

Lithium ion batteries set the standard because they have an acceptable level of all the key metrics: energy storage by weight; energy storage by volume; discharge rate; charging rate; production costs. Every single one of these big breakthrough announcements touts how great this new tech is- in just one or two particular metrics. The problem is that Li-Ion batteries are just barely acceptable in all of those metrics.…

As well as battery charge cycles

And shock tolerance, and temperature tolerance, and i/o efficiency

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#118

Post by seppler »

jackmott42 wrote: post #41
Tade0 wrote: post #6

Solid state might share the fate of Betamax. There was a post a while ago about a small scale battery manufacturer named Amprius, which reported 500Wh/kg batteries: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35276709 Thing is, the company is producing 450Wh/kg batteries NOW and they're planning on scaling up their manufacturing capacity to 5GWh: https://www.convertingquarterly.com/ConvertingQuarterly/Indu... This solid sta…

EVs are already very heavy, and when the model 3 switched to LFP it got even heavier. This mass has lots of subtle consequences that aren't always appreciated. Like accelerated tire wear (which Tesla owners notice after they buy) and increased particulate pollution from that, increased road wear, increased danger to pedestrians and cyclists, etc. So, I'm less excited about LFP. There are a number of ideas in the work…

Before my Model 3, I had a BMW M3. Curb weights were the same (2009 BMW M3 vs 2018 Model 3 LR RWD). Even comparing a 2020 Model 3 AWD vs. a 2020 BMW M3, curb weights are about the same (~4000lbs).

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#119

Post by Feloevo »

kungito wrote: post #81
Feloevo wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is already a car which uses two battery technologies in parallel. This would also allow you to configure or offer cars optimized for the climate they are being used. I personally also see those news more in 'im 5-10 years' we will have something much better than now.

Which car? You cannot drop something like this without a source

Can't find it on the fly.

I read about it a few month back but ev battery and types etc. Shows a lot of other topics.

Might have been Tesla when they announced the other cell type.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#120

Post by darksaints »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #83
MrsPeaches wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who’s the current market leader on EV private pilot planes?

Cessna I guess.They bought Pipistrel recently. There are a few companies getting closer to production with various planes and drones. But realistically, I think volume sales is still a few years out. Companies like Amprius scaling their high end battery production (like they announced recently) is interesting though.

Cessna didn’t buy Pipistrel, Textron did. Maybe that’s being pedantic, but Cessna has zero development going on in the electric plane space, and Pipistrel still runs almost completely independent of the other brands in Textron’s portfolio.
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