Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

spectrum.ieee.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 218 posts

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#51

Post by MrsPeaches »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #38
Tade0 wrote: post #6

Solid state might share the fate of Betamax. There was a post a while ago about a small scale battery manufacturer named Amprius, which reported 500Wh/kg batteries: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35276709 Thing is, the company is producing 450Wh/kg batteries NOW and they're planning on scaling up their manufacturing capacity to 5GWh: https://www.convertingquarterly.com/ConvertingQuarterly/Indu... This solid sta…

You are right. The company you mention is focusing on the aviation industry. Drones and light airplanes. Weight matters a lot there. To the point where saving weight is worth a lot to manufacturers. Basically every kilo you save is more useful load and range. It's also a very conservative market. Most of the planes in the process of being certified, or already certified (like the Pipistrel trainer) are using batterie…

Who’s the current market leader on EV private pilot planes?

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#52

Post by reisse »

jackmott42 wrote: post #42
chimen wrote: post #5

Surprised how "dead" this industry is. I remember having Lithium-Ion batteries since I was in high school which was more than 20 years ago (and some Li-Po until then). Everything is leaps and bounds since then but not the batteries. Seems like a massive disconnect to me but I'm no chemist or researcher in this field.

Lots of fields have run into fundamental physical limits that pause progress. Rocketry is another. In the 1950s we pretty much figured out how to throw gas out the back as fast as possible, and so not much has happened since that improves rocket performance. We did finally figure out how to reuse a bit of the rocket affordably though so that has been nice. similarly airplanes stopped getting faster because we hit the…

> similarly airplanes stopped getting faster because we hit the point where the atmosphere starts melting you to death, and not much can be done about that.

While I agree with your point in general, have to nitpick here. Thermal protection is mostly solved problem by now (think Space Shuttles and other reentry vehicles). Commercial airplanes stopped getting faster because they hit a sweet spot between speed and fuel consumption. Military airplanes are stuck because hypersonic aerodynamics is very hard and different from subsonic/sonic/supersonic ones.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#53

Post by solarkraft »

jillesvangurp wrote: post #47
akokanka wrote: post #3

Research Vs Reality are quite often decades behind in physical world.

Easy to forget that most car enthusiasts thought that Elon Musk was a lunatic that was obviously going to fail about a decade ago. And now he's basically dominating the car industry. Lithium batteries did not exist until the nineties and did not get practical for use in cars until about 15 years ago. Research on solid state batteries has been ongoing since then. E.g. Quantumscape founded in 2010. and is planning to s…

You're not wrong, but these articles keep selling it like the market introduction is just around the corner. It never is. They never mention that the battery almost always a huge downside making it inviable for most applications. So I (and probably many others) have grown disillusioned of news around battery technology. Wake me up when pre-production units reach independent testers. I don't care enough about this stuff to follow the dozens of leads that appear what feels like every week but never go anywhere.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#54

Post by ezconnect »

dougmwne wrote: post #30
ezconnect wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not all batteries, the electronics got less power hungry.

Drones are a good example of something that couldn’t exist with the old battery tech. Hobbyist RC aircraft always ran on small fuel engines. And the laws of physics around energy required to lift a craft are not changing anytime soon.

I agree Lithium batteries can't be beat on power density compared to other battery technology.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#55

Post by solarkraft »

> Still, although this research may solve one critical problem with anode-free all-solid-state lithium batteries, a great deal of development is needed to actually bring them to market

Always.

I'm happy they found something that might perhaps some day become real, but it's going to stay irrelevant for years and may never happen. Unless you really care about minor scientific discoveries (rather than things that are directly going to influence industies related to energy storage), there's not much to see here.

No, we're not all going to have Aluminium-Air batteries in our cars next year. The hype around this stuff reminds me of the one around fusion reactors. Just around the corner. Sure, dude.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#56

Post by lm28469 »

chimen wrote: post #5

Surprised how "dead" this industry is. I remember having Lithium-Ion batteries since I was in high school which was more than 20 years ago (and some Li-Po until then). Everything is leaps and bounds since then but not the batteries. Seems like a massive disconnect to me but I'm no chemist or researcher in this field.

2000 li ion batteries are the same as modern li ion batteries the same way a Volkswagen golf 4 is the same as a golf 8, aka they're not

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#58

Post by moogly »

gt565k wrote: post #11

I read an article somewhere that discusses how Toyota has the most battery patents out of any company and also owns most of the solid state patents and are actually working on commercializing solid state batteries for vehicles. The point I think the article was trying to make is that while everyone is focused on lithium ion, Toyota was biding it’s time and getting ready to one-up everyone with solid state batteries a…

So are you saying this long game is why the anti-EV CEO Toyoda Akio is stepping down tomorrow? (Read between the lines: being ousted by the board).

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#59

Post by lonk11 »

Heston wrote: post #7

"...the problem they face going through cycles of discharging and recharging in a stable way." They suffer from poor wearing like almost all new battery technologies. Until that's solved they aren't useful.

The article is about a solution to make lithium metal anode more stable. They discovered a coating that prevents the formation of dendrites, which are the cause of short cycle life of previous attempts at lithium metal anodes.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#60

Post by datacruncher01 »

gt565k wrote: post #11

I read an article somewhere that discusses how Toyota has the most battery patents out of any company and also owns most of the solid state patents and are actually working on commercializing solid state batteries for vehicles. The point I think the article was trying to make is that while everyone is focused on lithium ion, Toyota was biding it’s time and getting ready to one-up everyone with solid state batteries a…

I think that Toyota won't really go heavy into EVs until batteries are more available. EV batteries are heavily dependent on lithium availability which is limited by world wide exploration limits. We are only able to mine enough to make about 2 million Tesla equivalent cars per year, and that's if none of it goes to phones other electronic devices. Toyota sells that many vehicles alone each year. Until there is something that can scale and still allow them to sell an economical model, they won't go heavy into EVs.
Post reply on HN