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Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

spectrum.ieee.org

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Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#101

Post by Schroedingersat »

nordsieck wrote: post #89
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strikes me that H2 made from excess solar panel output, at source, might become a thing. If you have enough solar for your needs then you're over-producing when the sun is at its peak. With feed in tariffs being low it makes sense to use this -- and hydrogen vehicles are an option.

> Strikes me that H2 made from excess solar panel output, at source, might become a thing. Why is that better than putting it back into the grid and/or putting it into a battery?

Batteries are as yet inappropriate for long duration swings over weeks or months that cycle only a few times a year.

Better to compare it to thermal storage, PHES, simply curtailing it or even virtual storage via hydro or w2e (or hydrogen generation with no step where it is converted back to electricity or motion). All of which are more sensible than hydrogen for personal transport.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#102

Post by rch »

MrsPeaches wrote: post #51
jillesvangurp wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are right. The company you mention is focusing on the aviation industry. Drones and light airplanes. Weight matters a lot there. To the point where saving weight is worth a lot to manufacturers. Basically every kilo you save is more useful load and range. It's also a very conservative market. Most of the planes in the process of being certified, or already certified (like the Pipistrel trainer) are using batterie…

Who’s the current market leader on EV private pilot planes?

No idea who the technology leader might be, but I hear about Joby most frequently.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#103

Post by xxs »

rbanffy wrote: post #94
raddan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure this is not what the poster meant, but in fact most EVs and hybrids use multiple battery technologies in parallel. For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. My old Prius had a NiMH battery for the drivetrain and a lead-acid battery for accessories.

> For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. This seems like an odd choice - unless you already bought a supply of lead-acid batteries for the next 50 years or so. I've read about a car using supercapacitors in the regenerative brakes to capture energy at high current and, then let it trickle back into the main batteries (or dr…

The 12v lane is ubiquitous, and standardized. Supercaps are inefficient when it comes to storage per weight and volume, discharge rate too.

Both lead acid and supercaps are not even remotely comparable to the main liion battery, they're suppliments, and not interesting ones

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#104

Post by briffle »

rbanffy wrote: post #94
raddan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure this is not what the poster meant, but in fact most EVs and hybrids use multiple battery technologies in parallel. For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. My old Prius had a NiMH battery for the drivetrain and a lead-acid battery for accessories.

> For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. This seems like an odd choice - unless you already bought a supply of lead-acid batteries for the next 50 years or so. I've read about a car using supercapacitors in the regenerative brakes to capture energy at high current and, then let it trickle back into the main batteries (or dr…

It could be great if you were a car manufacturer that already had an existing, very large supply chain for lights, dashboard, powered window motors, and other accessories, that were already 12 volt.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#105

Post by sorenjan »

rbanffy wrote: post #94
raddan wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sure this is not what the poster meant, but in fact most EVs and hybrids use multiple battery technologies in parallel. For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. My old Prius had a NiMH battery for the drivetrain and a lead-acid battery for accessories.

> For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. This seems like an odd choice - unless you already bought a supply of lead-acid batteries for the next 50 years or so. I've read about a car using supercapacitors in the regenerative brakes to capture energy at high current and, then let it trickle back into the main batteries (or dr…

Tesla switched from lead-acid to 12V lithium ion their S and X models in 2021. James May had some issues with his Tesla when the 12V battery went flat.

https://insideevs.com/news/546087/tesla-liion-12v-auxiliary-...

https://youtu.be/NsKwMryKqRE

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#106

Post by londons_explore »

raddan wrote: post #92
kungito wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which car? You cannot drop something like this without a source

I’m sure this is not what the poster meant, but in fact most EVs and hybrids use multiple battery technologies in parallel. For example, a Chevy Bolt has a lithium ion battery to power the drivetrain and a conventional lead-acid battery for the accessories. My old Prius had a NiMH battery for the drivetrain and a lead-acid battery for accessories.

A lead acid battery is just a holdover from the way every car used to have one for the accessories, and unless you want to redesign all the accessories, it's easier to have a 12v-14v circuit just for that.

And before you say "oh, but they could just use a voltage converter from the high voltage battery", they need to consider that some accessories use hundreds of amps briefly (eg. the power steering - that makes for an expensive voltage converter), and the car still needs to operate lights and stuff while the high voltage battery is offline (eg. after an isolation fault).

For all of the above reasons, the lead acid battery is still there, even though a clean sheet design would never have one.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#107

Post by sorenjan »

alkonaut wrote: post #82
uoaei wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different battery designs and chemistries are appropriate for different applications. I don't care about how much a battery weighs if it never moves, for example.

The powerwall use case will only grow when people get solar panels and when rural areas in countries lacking power infrastructure eletrify. But while that use case doesn't care as much about weight, bulk, charge rate and % capacity as car batteries, in return they are very sensitive to cost and the market will (depending on how cheaply recycling can be done) likely be filled with used car-batteries with degraded capa…

One drawback of using lots of lithium batteries in your home is that they might experience thermal runaway and burn your house down. Not having to worry about that should have some additional value.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#108

Post by malfist »

ngrilly wrote: post #18

Why is it called anode-free when it still has a copper collector with a special coating? Yes, they removed the graphite, but they didn’t remote the entire “anode”. Or is it because the collector and the coating are not technically considered as an electrode?

Forgive me if my EE knowledge is old and rusty, but isn't an anode required for a battery to function? You have to be able to harvest a voltage differential, and to do that you must have an anode and a cathode.

Perhaps they meant there wasn't an anode that gets degraded by use?

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#109

Post by londons_explore »

jackmott42 wrote: post #42
chimen wrote: post #5

Surprised how "dead" this industry is. I remember having Lithium-Ion batteries since I was in high school which was more than 20 years ago (and some Li-Po until then). Everything is leaps and bounds since then but not the batteries. Seems like a massive disconnect to me but I'm no chemist or researcher in this field.

Lots of fields have run into fundamental physical limits that pause progress. Rocketry is another. In the 1950s we pretty much figured out how to throw gas out the back as fast as possible, and so not much has happened since that improves rocket performance. We did finally figure out how to reuse a bit of the rocket affordably though so that has been nice. similarly airplanes stopped getting faster because we hit the…

Rocketry progress stopped because world governments cut back funding dramatically in the 1960's, and private demand for rocket launches isn't much.

Aeroplanes stopped developing because the whole industry is now highly regulated. The barrier to getting a new type of plane/engine design to market is beyond what pretty much all startups are capable of. That's why we still fly some planes like cessna designed in the 1960's, back when regulation was more lax.

I don't think either rockets nor planes are anywhere near fundamental physical limits if we took away the 'human' limiting factors.

Re: Solid-State Battery Has 2x the Energy–and No Anode

#110

Post by cryptoegorophy »

mabbo wrote: post #63

Lithium ion batteries set the standard because they have an acceptable level of all the key metrics: energy storage by weight; energy storage by volume; discharge rate; charging rate; production costs. Every single one of these big breakthrough announcements touts how great this new tech is- in just one or two particular metrics. The problem is that Li-Ion batteries are just barely acceptable in all of those metrics.…

As well as battery charge cycles
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