Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio • Hacker News Board

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#51

Post by davidw » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 9:01 AM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #24

mekazu wrote: post #21

Is radio dead in the USA? In Australia I think the radio culture is quite vibrant. Personally I download music from time to time that sits on my phone but I listen to the radio 99% of the time because it introduces and plays the best music anyway. The radio stations that I listen to are govt funded[1] so they don't have any ads and have a community focus of getting people to go see live concerts and listen to good mu…

It's not dead if you listen to country music, mexican music, christian music or talk radio.

Not just country music. They play both kinds, country and western.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#52

Post by __david__ » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 10:29 AM UTC

krakensden wrote: post #39

mekazu wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think killed it? How do people find good music without having to filter through all the rubbish? Does the industry rely on advertising to sell bad music? Are "Top 40" artists built by record companies and sold on TV and/or the internet? Does good music travel through word of mouth by people in-the-know? iTunes is pretty and all but I can't picture people paying to download without having heard the music s…

I don't work in radio, I'm not a radio historian, so there's a good chance I'm violently wrong- but my pet theory is that advertising killed radio in the US. You have to fit into a small number of surprisingly rigid categories in order to participate in the big money advertising campaigns, and if you don't have those, you're liable to go dark. There are exceptions, like the Pacifica network and oddities like KPIG, bu…

It's not just that, I think Clear Channel caused the true demise of radio. They own practically every radio station in the US and so there's been a massive homogenization of playlists across radio stations. College stations offer a small respite from the dreary same-ness that is corporate radio, but the stations near me don't have that much power so they only cover a small physical area and the more interesting shows aren't on during commute times.

For me, commercials are also a large issue--with TV I have a DVR and my browser has an ad-blocker, so I'm just not used to listening to commercials. They tend to start aggravating me after a very short time (10 seconds or so).

Those are the reasons I don't listen to the radio any more.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#53

Post by mjwalshe » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 11:02 AM UTC

minikomi wrote: post #18

mohene1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are authors paid for books purchased at the library? The library does not provide the public with a free personal copy of any book they want. I do not doubt that artists may be compensated in the long run. But the compensation my come through higher ticket prices. I paid $32 to see Molotov, Eminem, The Black Eyed Peas, and Suicidal Tendencies in New York City back in 1999. Those days are long gone. To see those artis…

What about something like kickstarter, for music? The artist will only release if a certain threshold is reached.. Then the released music is completely "free" to share as people please. The artist is compensated as they see fit - they set the price in the first place, and also can use it to justify part of the price (to compensate for recording, hosting etc.). "Piracy" then serves to generate rep to prove that they…

How would you pay for the Kit and pay the artistes running a band is not cheap even for a 3/4 member band.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#54

Post by wisty » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 11:04 AM UTC

nextparadigms wrote: post #22

minikomi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about something like kickstarter, for music? The artist will only release if a certain threshold is reached.. Then the released music is completely "free" to share as people please. The artist is compensated as they see fit - they set the price in the first place, and also can use it to justify part of the price (to compensate for recording, hosting etc.). "Piracy" then serves to generate rep to prove that they…

It would probably work pretty well, if the artist can prove himself in a short video, and then ask for money so he can make a music video and do it all with more professional equipment.

Why would they want to do music videos? A music video is just an add, which just happens to cost more than the product to produce, and is entertaining enough that people actually watch them. People watch informercials too.

Nobody buys their favorite music video (unless it's The Wall). They buy the CD, because all they really care about is the music.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#55

Post by J3L2404 » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 11:35 AM UTC

mekazu wrote: post #42

krakensden wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't work in radio, I'm not a radio historian, so there's a good chance I'm violently wrong- but my pet theory is that advertising killed radio in the US. You have to fit into a small number of surprisingly rigid categories in order to participate in the big money advertising campaigns, and if you don't have those, you're liable to go dark. There are exceptions, like the Pacifica network and oddities like KPIG, bu…

You paint a pretty bleak picture. Does anybody have any examples of USA radio that is intelligent, artist focused, youth oriented, community driven, ad free, subscription free, streaming on-line, etc? There are plenty to choose from on tunein.com but I'm looking for highlights. Sorry if this is heading too far from the topic.

MIT's station WMBR

Boston College WZBC

Stanford KZSU

UC Santa Cruz KZSC

KUSF WNYU WUNH

Tons of great music. All free. All available on the net. Throw in Radioshift to record my favorite shows and I have more music than I can possibly have time to listen to.

Why does everyone always forget about college radio?

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#56

Post by joshuahedlund » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 11:38 AM UTC

mekazu wrote: post #21

Is radio dead in the USA? In Australia I think the radio culture is quite vibrant. Personally I download music from time to time that sits on my phone but I listen to the radio 99% of the time because it introduces and plays the best music anyway. The radio stations that I listen to are govt funded[1] so they don't have any ads and have a community focus of getting people to go see live concerts and listen to good mu…

Radio in the US is dying, but anyone who thinks it's dead is in a bubble outside mainstream culture. Yes it's easier than ever before to become famous without radio, and artists with no radio play more frequently top the album sales charts, but just look at the iTunes single charts to see the continuing dominance of radio. 99% of the time the top 10 singles are all over pop/hip-hop/top 40 radio, and it's almost impossible to outsell those kinds of acts without the radio. Even the top-selling albums are still mostly driven by radio play (though increasingly less so).

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#57

Post by RyanMcGreal » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 12:29 PM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #6

We have come to accept a vast panoply of behaviors of sharing creative works and of allowing people to "consume" music, art, movies, etc. without directly compensating the creators. Radio, television, libraries, used books, etc. We accept such things largely because we've grown used to them. We have lived long enough in an era of libraries and radio to understand that they do not destroy the ability of artists to mak…

The thing is, all the currently acceptable ways to consume music without paying for it were also strenuously resisted by the music industry when they first appeared. The difference is that governments were less inclined in the past to believe the industry hype and roll over with draconian laws.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#58

Post by bane » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 1:58 PM UTC

mekazu wrote: post #30

TylerE wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's dead. But basically minus the government stuff. Well, there is NPR (National Public Radio) which is about 15-25% government funded, but that's typically news/talk/classical. Some of the edgier NPR stations might have an acoustic rock/folk set at midnight on a Friday...

What do you think killed it? How do people find good music without having to filter through all the rubbish? Does the industry rely on advertising to sell bad music? Are "Top 40" artists built by record companies and sold on TV and/or the internet? Does good music travel through word of mouth by people in-the-know? iTunes is pretty and all but I can't picture people paying to download without having heard the music s…

"What do you think killed it?"

Mergers and acquisitions. The homogenizing of radio made it such that, while it played the top-40s in each major genre, it become excruciatingly boring because they'd only play the top-40s. You'd literally hear the entire selection of music they'd play within a couple of days of light listening.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clear_Channel_Communications

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinity_Broadcasting_Corporati...

Here's the history of a great example:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WHFS_(historic)#Abrupt_format_s...

Top-40 music is by definition the music for the largest possible audience -- or put another way for the lowest common denominator of listener. It's boring, format stamped mediocrity that favors Nickelback over any better band.

Every so often I'll surf the stations and be amazed that songs that were playing and popular 10 years ago are still playing in regular rotation. Songs that have since moved onto regular rotation in doctor's office waiting lounges and elevators.

I remember a time when you could turn on your station of choice, listen for an hour and hear 3 or 4 songs in the top-40, 3-4 in the top-100 and 3-4 new songs as they tried to bring in new material for listeners. There also used to be just better selection in stations representing slightly different formats in the same major genre, it was possible at one time to find a station that played hard rock, classic rock and alternative rock. Now it's just "rock" and all three will play Nickelback at the same time.

Here's the current top-40 in rock http://www.billboard.com/charts/rock-songs#/charts/rock-song...

At least a fourth of these bands I remember getting airplay in the 90s. These are bands so old that the beginning of their careers are starting to see some play on the classic rock stations.

Radio killed itself.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#59

Post by chollida1 » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 2:18 PM UTC

minikomi wrote: post #18

mohene1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are authors paid for books purchased at the library? The library does not provide the public with a free personal copy of any book they want. I do not doubt that artists may be compensated in the long run. But the compensation my come through higher ticket prices. I paid $32 to see Molotov, Eminem, The Black Eyed Peas, and Suicidal Tendencies in New York City back in 1999. Those days are long gone. To see those artis…

What about something like kickstarter, for music? The artist will only release if a certain threshold is reached.. Then the released music is completely "free" to share as people please. The artist is compensated as they see fit - they set the price in the first place, and also can use it to justify part of the price (to compensate for recording, hosting etc.). "Piracy" then serves to generate rep to prove that they…

That might work for established artists like Pearl Jam, but consider Pearl Jam in the early 90s.

They made enough money to retire off their first album. Under the kickstarter model, they wouldn't have been able to earn anywhere near that much money as no one had heard of them outside of Seattle before their first album release.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#60

Post by decadentcactus » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 2:29 PM UTC

minikomi wrote: post #18

mohene1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are authors paid for books purchased at the library? The library does not provide the public with a free personal copy of any book they want. I do not doubt that artists may be compensated in the long run. But the compensation my come through higher ticket prices. I paid $32 to see Molotov, Eminem, The Black Eyed Peas, and Suicidal Tendencies in New York City back in 1999. Those days are long gone. To see those artis…

What about something like kickstarter, for music? The artist will only release if a certain threshold is reached.. Then the released music is completely "free" to share as people please. The artist is compensated as they see fit - they set the price in the first place, and also can use it to justify part of the price (to compensate for recording, hosting etc.). "Piracy" then serves to generate rep to prove that they…

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tfk/tfkthe-end-is-where-...

Thousand Foot Krutch made this project which was easily funded it seems. Although they are an established band already, and I'm not sure if 100k is "good" for them or not. But then again, that's only really pre-orders.