Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio • Hacker News Board

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#21

Post by mekazu » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 3:55 AM UTC

Is radio dead in the USA? In Australia I think the radio culture is quite vibrant. Personally I download music from time to time that sits on my phone but I listen to the radio 99% of the time because it introduces and plays the best music anyway. The radio stations that I listen to are govt funded[1] so they don't have any ads and have a community focus of getting people to go see live concerts and listen to good music.

We also have commercial radio stations that play disposable child-like pop music (combined with horrible ads and drone-like presenters) that is well suited to 13 year old girls but still becomes popular with the masses. So there is something for everyone.

I don't support SOPA (not that it counts in Australia, or anywhere else for that matter) but I think that artists should get some money from somewhere for their efforts. People listen to the radio free but they still have the option of buying the album. Downloading the album free makes that option redundant.

In Australia people typically pay $40 - $70 a month for their internet which - if they use the allocated capacity - they are using to pirate music, movies and TV without ads. I'd prefer to see part of that money going to an artist fund rather than the ISPs and broadband resellers.

[1] triplej.net.au and www.abc.net.au/classic/

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#22

Post by nextparadigms » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 3:56 AM UTC

minikomi wrote: post #18

mohene1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are authors paid for books purchased at the library? The library does not provide the public with a free personal copy of any book they want. I do not doubt that artists may be compensated in the long run. But the compensation my come through higher ticket prices. I paid $32 to see Molotov, Eminem, The Black Eyed Peas, and Suicidal Tendencies in New York City back in 1999. Those days are long gone. To see those artis…

What about something like kickstarter, for music? The artist will only release if a certain threshold is reached.. Then the released music is completely "free" to share as people please. The artist is compensated as they see fit - they set the price in the first place, and also can use it to justify part of the price (to compensate for recording, hosting etc.). "Piracy" then serves to generate rep to prove that they…

It would probably work pretty well, if the artist can prove himself in a short video, and then ask for money so he can make a music video and do it all with more professional equipment.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#23

Post by minikomi » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 3:57 AM UTC

nextparadigms wrote: post #22

minikomi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about something like kickstarter, for music? The artist will only release if a certain threshold is reached.. Then the released music is completely "free" to share as people please. The artist is compensated as they see fit - they set the price in the first place, and also can use it to justify part of the price (to compensate for recording, hosting etc.). "Piracy" then serves to generate rep to prove that they…

It would probably work pretty well, if the artist can prove himself in a short video, and then ask for money so he can make a music video and do it all with more professional equipment.

Make satellite sites for producers, video artists, stylists..

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#24

Post by rdouble » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 3:58 AM UTC

mekazu wrote: post #21

Is radio dead in the USA? In Australia I think the radio culture is quite vibrant. Personally I download music from time to time that sits on my phone but I listen to the radio 99% of the time because it introduces and plays the best music anyway. The radio stations that I listen to are govt funded[1] so they don't have any ads and have a community focus of getting people to go see live concerts and listen to good mu…

It's not dead if you listen to country music, mexican music, christian music or talk radio.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#25

Post by jpdoctor » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 4:01 AM UTC

He should write a song about it. Here are some suggested lyrics:

  Hey hey, my my,
  Piracy will never die,
  There's more to the torrent
  Than meets the eye,
  Hey hey, my my.

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#26

Post by TylerE » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 4:27 AM UTC

mekazu wrote: post #21

Is radio dead in the USA? In Australia I think the radio culture is quite vibrant. Personally I download music from time to time that sits on my phone but I listen to the radio 99% of the time because it introduces and plays the best music anyway. The radio stations that I listen to are govt funded[1] so they don't have any ads and have a community focus of getting people to go see live concerts and listen to good mu…

Yes, it's dead. But basically minus the government stuff.

Well, there is NPR (National Public Radio) which is about 15-25% government funded, but that's typically news/talk/classical. Some of the edgier NPR stations might have an acoustic rock/folk set at midnight on a Friday...

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#27

Post by sausagefeet » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 4:32 AM UTC

vibrunazo wrote: post #12

InclinedPlane wrote: post #6

We have come to accept a vast panoply of behaviors of sharing creative works and of allowing people to "consume" music, art, movies, etc. without directly compensating the creators. Radio, television, libraries, used books, etc. We accept such things largely because we've grown used to them. We have lived long enough in an era of libraries and radio to understand that they do not destroy the ability of artists to mak…

I agree, this goes in line with what Francis Ford Coppola recently said [1]. People refuse to accept it because they cannot understand how it could be different. Hollywood's model is broken because it has been dependent on scarcity of distribution. This couldn't be sustainable forever. Internet fixed the distribution so Hollywood is bleeding. Art is getting easier to access and to create thanks to technology. (this i…

Weren't 2009 and 2010 Hollywood's most profitable years?

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#28

Post by baddox » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 4:34 AM UTC

jeffool wrote: post #17

baddox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So radio is only acceptable because it's bad for the consumer? Does making radio better (by allowing on-demand listening) suddenly make it illegal/immoral/bad?

Radio pays far more per song than Internet streamers do. Running a radio station is $x/song, on the web it's $x/song/listener. (Radio stations cost lots to set up up front, web radio costs kick in when you get bigger, but until then you'd have to operate at a loss, or go ad heavy.

That's a completely different (and more valid) argument than "pirating lets you listen on demand but radio doesn't."

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#29

Post by mohene1 » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 4:35 AM UTC

InclinedPlane wrote: post #19

mohene1 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are authors paid for books purchased at the library? The library does not provide the public with a free personal copy of any book they want. I do not doubt that artists may be compensated in the long run. But the compensation my come through higher ticket prices. I paid $32 to see Molotov, Eminem, The Black Eyed Peas, and Suicidal Tendencies in New York City back in 1999. Those days are long gone. To see those artis…

Yes, the limits are different, that's why I wrote this: "Uncompensated sharing in the digital age has been unmoored from some of the traditional limits on sharing, moving it well outside the comfort zone for a lot of people and causing a lot of backlash against the phenomenon." You say radio, museums, and libraries aren't comparable to file sharing. Do you have data to back that up or merely prejudice? As for your an…

Museums - Examples of donations: Julian and Josie Robertson donate Picasso to North Carolina Museum of Art http://www.wral.com/news/local/noteworthy/story/7107735/ http://thesouthern.com/news/breaking/new-york-collectors-don...

Radio and Record Companies work in conjunction Music-formatted radio stations both commercial and non-commercial get their music for free from record labels.

http://www.musicbizacademy.com/knab/articles/radiostations.h...

Libraries are publicly funded

Why ticket prices have shot up over the last decade

http://sg.finance.yahoo.com/news/why-rock-roll-slumping-u-21...

Breakdown of ticket prices, bands receive %74to90% of ticket price

http://www.wisebread.com/how-much-a-breakdown-of-concert-tic...

Music sales slump,concert ticket costs jump and rock fans pay the price.

http://www.krueger.princeton.edu/10_17_2002.htm

Ticket price, true they(BEP) were not that popular then but $28+tax in 1999 compared to $45 now is still higher than inflation. The inflation increase is 29%[3], the ticket increase is 60%[4].

[3]http://www.warpedtourtickets.musictoday.com/WarpedTour/calen...

[4]http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi

Re: Neil Young is right — piracy is the new radio

#30

Post by mekazu » Wed, Feb 01, 2012, 4:44 AM UTC

TylerE wrote: post #26

mekazu wrote: post #21

Is radio dead in the USA? In Australia I think the radio culture is quite vibrant. Personally I download music from time to time that sits on my phone but I listen to the radio 99% of the time because it introduces and plays the best music anyway. The radio stations that I listen to are govt funded[1] so they don't have any ads and have a community focus of getting people to go see live concerts and listen to good mu…

Yes, it's dead. But basically minus the government stuff. Well, there is NPR (National Public Radio) which is about 15-25% government funded, but that's typically news/talk/classical. Some of the edgier NPR stations might have an acoustic rock/folk set at midnight on a Friday...

What do you think killed it? How do people find good music without having to filter through all the rubbish? Does the industry rely on advertising to sell bad music? Are "Top 40" artists built by record companies and sold on TV and/or the internet? Does good music travel through word of mouth by people in-the-know? iTunes is pretty and all but I can't picture people paying to download without having heard the music somewhere else before.

Lots of generalising to do here to answer these questions I guess but I figure there's opportunity out there for someone who can make something of the answers.