> It is recommended to have a minimum 16 physical cores in order to fully benefit from Folia.
I didn't expect this. I wonder how many Minecraft servers are using more than 16 cores in production today.
Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
41–50 of 72 posts
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#42The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason.
Folia most likely breaks compatibility with plugins so forking is to be expected.
If you ignore server plugins, the only effort in actually trying to build a modding API is Quilt and it's Quilt Standard Libraries, which you probably guesses further splits the modding community into Forge, Fabric and now Quilt but that is on the Forge and Fabric guys for not even trying.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Does modding need to mean actually modifying game files? When we say modding, we generally mean adding new blocks, items, and behaviours no? Surely this could be done with a public API? It might not give you quite as much freedom as existing mods but you could get most of the way there.
I'm not sure you understand how mechanically complex MC modding gets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR8W-f9YhYA ... and that is just one mod. There are mods for interplanetary space travel, mods for modular portals and matter-energy conversion, mods for full z height terrain gen and massive premade structures, mods for virtual NPCs and towns, "backend" mods that overhaul the render, light engine, chunk loading and…
You seem to underestimate the amount of modding that vanilla Minecraft servers have, such as Wynncraft or Hypixel Skyblock. They turn Minecraft into a completely different game and most of the changes are server side.
Also, Fabric and Forge are not modding APIs. They sometimes provide extra APIs on top of the base game to make mod compatibility easier, but you are very much supposed to just mess around with the Minecraft codebase directly and directly reference Mojang classes in your code. If all you want to do is add a new block in Fabric you don't touch any Fabric API.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's a shame Bedrock modding (behaviour packs?) is so limited. The performance is so much better than the Java version. It's also a shame it has Xbox shit and microtransactions shoved in.
Also Java performance doesn't have to be so horrendous, that is Mojang'a fault. They could iron it out with a tiny fraction of their sales. That being said, the low hanging mod fruit they could incorporate is often poisoned by GPL or some other weird license.
There is no reason for Mojang to copy mods. It is better for them to develop their own solution so that they can maintain parity between Java and bedrock edition.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually, this is absolutely possible today using data packs. They're the successor to the modding API project and they provide a very simple declarative JSON-based syntax for adding new blocks, items, customizing world gen, adding new commands, advancements, and even custom entity behavior (using the flexible tag-based entity data system).
Did a quick google search, it still does not seem to be possible to add using the namespace system they implemented in 1.13 (supposedly for such a reason) and datapacks. Currently, it looks like 'custom blocks' involve using a hacky method involving invisible armor stands and item frames holding items modeled as a block. Which means they count and behave as entities instead of true blocks, and this can be an issue si…
Ah, that's fair, I knew lots of datapacks used custom entities but didn't realize that custom blocks were entirely impossible. I agree it seems like a strange limitation. I guess the biggest issue is that while custom blocks are easy to make, custom block behaviors are much more complicated to implement outside of code compared to custom entity behaviors, which are much more customizable as a tradeoff for being much less performant.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It's fine for a private server Land claim / griefing protection? Multiplayer sleep? Custom recipes? Dynmap? Multiverse? WorldGuard rules? :) Edit because I can't reply any more: > to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate All that for the privilege of running the Bedrock client on a Mac with Crossover, I guess. Nah, they can keep it. I didn't even claim the free Bedrock when they…
> Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. That said multiplayer sleep, custom recipes, bedrock-viz, and others exist. Customized protection I've found to be lacking though. But honestly if you're looking at that many 3rd party things you might find it easier to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate. It still ha…
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Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm not sure you understand how mechanically complex MC modding gets. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rR8W-f9YhYA ... and that is just one mod. There are mods for interplanetary space travel, mods for modular portals and matter-energy conversion, mods for full z height terrain gen and massive premade structures, mods for virtual NPCs and towns, "backend" mods that overhaul the render, light engine, chunk loading and…
You seem to underestimate the amount of modding that vanilla Minecraft servers have, such as Wynncraft or Hypixel Skyblock. They turn Minecraft into a completely different game and most of the changes are server side. Also, Fabric and Forge are not modding APIs. They sometimes provide extra APIs on top of the base game to make mod compatibility easier, but you are very much supposed to just mess around with the Minec…
Yeah no question that server only modding is huge too. Its like 2 completely different ecosystems.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also Java performance doesn't have to be so horrendous, that is Mojang'a fault. They could iron it out with a tiny fraction of their sales. That being said, the low hanging mod fruit they could incorporate is often poisoned by GPL or some other weird license.
There is no reason for Mojang to copy mods. It is better for them to develop their own solution so that they can maintain parity between Java and bedrock edition.
Well they have had the opportunity to (for instance) overhaul the renderer or thread dimensions since 1.0 in 2011, and we are still here tapping our feet.
They have tried to pull in mods before, but unfortunate drama that ensued probably soured them on that idea.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#49I wonder how "bubble merging" would look like. Some hiccup? I used to play on civcraft and at some point they decided the lag was unbearable and restarted the map. The new map was a number of map shards connected with portals (bungee?). It fixed the lag but getting around got more cumbersome.
Yeah would you roll back the smaller bubble and propagate the larger one? Try and merge them? What happens with 3 bubbles? Is the worst case here much worse than single threaded?
At the moment there are some weird nuances around update order based on world location and direction that the more technical players have learnt to work with/around for the most part.
Predictable update orders are a big deal for those super technical players.
Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server
#50I wonder how it handles the seams between the regions. How does a player interact with another player on the other side of this border.
If I read the documentation, it appears to be that it will expand the region to accommodate both players or merge the regions, so that you will never have a situation where two players from different regions are visible to each other.
So worst case is you're essentially back to single threaded. With a slight overhead of tracking connected regions.
I guess that makes sense.
I wonder what this looks like on practice, what kinds of play styles will see the biggest boost from this.
I also wonder how this plays with things like hyper long range TNT/Ender pearl cannons. Entities are their own pile of worms, but distant regions can suddenly influence each other in some cases.