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Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

paper-chan.moe

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Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#31

Post by rezonant »

rezonant wrote: post #30
robotnikman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember, back before Mojang was acquired by Microsoft the devs mentioned working on a modding API, and how it would allow for all kinds of things. I have a feeling such plans were killed off during the acquisition, as it has never been mentioned since then. Even now it would be simple for the devs to allow players to add new blocks and items via server sent resource packs without needed a modded client, and yet fo…

It didn't die, it evolved. Mojang began taking cues from the modding communities, improving the internal APIs, making the overall codebase more generalized and robust, moving model data to declarative JSON, adding registry systems instead of hard coding, introducing additional resources namespaces by default, resource packs, data packs, simpler creation of custom blocks, biomes, and most recently opening up Mojang's…

As an addendum, other games get away with a "designed" modding API because the alternative is too difficult, as most games are built in C/C++ which is nowhere near as malleable and discoverable as the Java runtime. It's also why mods for Bedrock (the C++ implementation of Minecraft) is barely a thing.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#32

Post by anticrymactic »

I have thought about this a lot already and basically came to exact same conclusion with the "bubble" system.

But don't the bubbles have to tick at the same time to be 100% vanilla? They still compute their ticks independently but only "roll over" together. Which would still increase performance extremely, don't get me wrong. But will not stop lag machines, since global mspt would be the min of all bubble mspt's. Although it would make tracking lag generation a lot easier.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#33

Post by DefineOutside »

anticrymactic wrote: post #32

I have thought about this a lot already and basically came to exact same conclusion with the "bubble" system. But don't the bubbles have to tick at the same time to be 100% vanilla? They still compute their ticks independently but only "roll over" together. Which would still increase performance extremely, don't get me wrong. But will not stop lag machines, since global mspt would be the min of all bubble mspt's. Alt…

Stuff is already used to ticking at a different pace because only parts are loading in the world at a time. Lag machines don't work as it will only lag your region, not all regions have to tick at the same pace.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#34

Post by nottorp »

zamadatix wrote: post #21
nottorp wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bedrock has IAPs now? I mean it was useless anyway for running a private server, and only runs on Windows, and automation is limited because they crippled the world update distance to have the omg raytracing! or whatever. And now it has IAPs too?

Bedrock has had IAPs for many years. It's fine for a private server and they offer Windows and Linux versions of it (client side it supports pretty much every platform except Mac/Linux, including oddities like ChromeOS). Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. World update distance default is lower in Realms but can be configured on a private ser…

> It's fine for a private server

Land claim / griefing protection? Multiplayer sleep? Custom recipes? Dynmap? Multiverse? WorldGuard rules? :)

Edit because I can't reply any more:

> to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate

All that for the privilege of running the Bedrock client on a Mac with Crossover, I guess. Nah, they can keep it. I didn't even claim the free Bedrock when they were giving it free to java owners.

On the server I play we're looking forward to testing Folia so redstone addicts will only lag themselves and not everyone btw.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#35

Post by mkeedlinger »

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #15
cooljacob204 wrote: post #14

I wonder how it handles the seams between the regions. How does a player interact with another player on the other side of this border.

If I read the documentation, it appears to be that it will expand the region to accommodate both players or merge the regions, so that you will never have a situation where two players from different regions are visible to each other.

Makes sense, also very cool.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#36

Post by sobkas »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #3

The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason.

> The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API.

> So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason.

Time and effort you put into upstreaming patches is almost always wasted, either you get it included and then have to maintain it forever or it will get removed due to bitrot or developers will just say no and all your effort was wasted. Don't forget that developers might also want to share their opinions about you based on your commit. There is no better way to build community than saying that no one cares about you inside of it.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#37

Post by zamadatix »

nottorp wrote: post #34
zamadatix wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bedrock has had IAPs for many years. It's fine for a private server and they offer Windows and Linux versions of it (client side it supports pretty much every platform except Mac/Linux, including oddities like ChromeOS). Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments. World update distance default is lower in Realms but can be configured on a private ser…

> It's fine for a private server Land claim / griefing protection? Multiplayer sleep? Custom recipes? Dynmap? Multiverse? WorldGuard rules? :) Edit because I can't reply any more: > to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate All that for the privilege of running the Bedrock client on a Mac with Crossover, I guess. Nah, they can keep it. I didn't even claim the free Bedrock when they…

> Just don't go running it expecting to set up what you would on a Java server - it's two different environments.

That said multiplayer sleep, custom recipes, bedrock-viz, and others exist. Customized protection I've found to be lacking though.

But honestly if you're looking at that many 3rd party things you might find it easier to use a 3rd party bridging solution with it instead like GeyserMC+Floodgate. It still has limitations compared to a native java (client, server, mod) tuple but it's probably easier to adapt to if you're used to java server.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#38

Post by robotnikman »

nightpool wrote: post #27
robotnikman wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember, back before Mojang was acquired by Microsoft the devs mentioned working on a modding API, and how it would allow for all kinds of things. I have a feeling such plans were killed off during the acquisition, as it has never been mentioned since then. Even now it would be simple for the devs to allow players to add new blocks and items via server sent resource packs without needed a modded client, and yet fo…

Actually, this is absolutely possible today using data packs. They're the successor to the modding API project and they provide a very simple declarative JSON-based syntax for adding new blocks, items, customizing world gen, adding new commands, advancements, and even custom entity behavior (using the flexible tag-based entity data system).

Did a quick google search, it still does not seem to be possible to add using the namespace system they implemented in 1.13 (supposedly for such a reason) and datapacks. Currently, it looks like 'custom blocks' involve using a hacky method involving invisible armor stands and item frames holding items modeled as a block. Which means they count and behave as entities instead of true blocks, and this can be an issue since too many entities will lag a server.

Data packs and resource packs certainly seem very promising as a modding API, but it still seems the devs are artificially restricting their usage.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#39

Post by bscphil »

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #3

The modding/custom server situation with Minecraft is so exhausting. I can't believe after all these years there is still no official modding or plugin API. So now we have Folia, which is a fork of Paper, which is a fork of Spigot, which I believe was originally a fork of Bukkit. Nice. I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason.

> I guess people don't want to upstream patches for some reason.

My insanely biased impression based on my experience is that this is just the norm for Windows-centric development. Generally you have no expectation of being given access to source code at all; if software is free then it's "freeware", but for whatever reason the developers don't generally want you modifying it. So many power user tools just died out when their developers quit working on them because the source code was not available, at least not under a free license.

I remember back in the early days of Minecraft (beta+ era) I'd just go on the forum and download random jar files uploaded by whomever, and mod Minecraft with them. Nobody asked for source code. Or thinking about doom9, for years and years the norm for tool development was that you'd download a random exe from someone on a forum, with a single thread for "support". If they disappeared one day, that was it. That's also the way a bunch of Android stuff is/was developed on xda-dev.

The more Linux-centric set of norms has expanded outward into a pretty robust open source ecosystem, but it's by no means the universal norm for free (as in beer) software development. Even in cases like Paper / Bukkit where the source is free, building the software yourself is very much not the norm, often is not even supported.

Re: Folia – Multithreading Coming to your Minecraft server

#40

Post by the_gipsy »

I wonder how "bubble merging" would look like. Some hiccup?

I used to play on civcraft and at some point they decided the lag was unbearable and restarted the map. The new map was a number of map shards connected with portals (bungee?). It fixed the lag but getting around got more cumbersome.

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