Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

eig.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 267 posts

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#231

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway29812 wrote: post #224
burlesona wrote: post #219

I will offer a contrarian take, not because I think anyone else in the thread is wrong, but because I think there’s more than one opinion here, and it’s not showing in the comments. I have multiple children, and I hate (ok, strongly dislike) working remotely. I dislike the lack of separation between home and work, and how it makes my children feel like I’m “always working.” I love the high-bandwidth communication and…

The spilt between "we want to go back to the office" and "we want to stay remote" on my team was perfectly decided based on if the individual had kids or not.

[deleted]

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#233

Post by munificent »

marcosdumay wrote: post #221
munificent wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that you feel the need to say that. At probably no point in US history are fathers spending more time with their kids than today. And yet our parenting culture is so toxic that we still feel the need to tell parents they aren't doing a good enough job.

The leap from "we must stop working people to death" into "telling parents they aren't doing a good job" is quite large.

I'm not sure where you got anything to do with work from the parent comment. All they said was, "there’s plenty room to improve - especially for fathers." Which is simply saying that fathers aren't doing enough.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#234

Post by fnordpiglet »

munificent wrote: post #216
fnordpiglet wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And yet, there’s plenty room to improve - especially for fathers.

I find it interesting that you feel the need to say that. At probably no point in US history are fathers spending more time with their kids than today. And yet our parenting culture is so toxic that we still feel the need to tell parents they aren't doing a good enough job.

I don’t think I said that at all, and it’s a little offensive to make that assumption. It’s like saying global poverty is at its lowest in history and saying it could be better is blaming poor people for not working hard enough. The parents aren’t to blame, and in the context of this overall thread, it’s the society that puts a premium on collocation over cohabitation, when it’s been demonstrated unnecessary to collocate to work effectively together in many fields. How you got to blaming parents for not doing a good enough job I have literally no idea.

I will bet you, furthermore, that pre industrial America parents, fathers included, spent way more time with their children than post industrial and more likely post war America. The data linked only extends to the start of post war American history though, and I’ll wager there’s no quantitative source to back me up. But the commuter culture started with the highway and interstate system, and before that factories brought parents away from the home en masse for the first time. Frankly I see the breaking down of the commute and office culture as a reversion to a more historically natural state where families are generally together most of the time.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#235

Post by fnordpiglet »

munificent wrote: post #233
marcosdumay wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The leap from "we must stop working people to death" into "telling parents they aren't doing a good job" is quite large.

I'm not sure where you got anything to do with work from the parent comment. All they said was, "there’s plenty room to improve - especially for fathers." Which is simply saying that fathers aren't doing enough.

Less than that - I don’t blame fathers for the society they live in. Some of that might be attitudes about fatherhood being away from home all the time and mothers are the person at home. But I suspect it’s more society expects fathers to be at work, where work is away from the home, and by in large fathers have little choice. Regardless I don’t blame the fathers for doing enough or not - it appears from the graphs fathers are increasingly spending more time at home which means they’re doing as much as they can - presumably the upper ward pressure is coming at the will of the father. Presumably given the continuous upper pressure there’s some upper limit fathers prefer that’s not been reached. Further it’s likely above where Denmark is, which is much rather than the US. It’s hard to blame someone who seems to be working their way towards a desired state, slowly but surely, for not yet being able to attain their desired level. That’s what I meant - I hope society continues to loosen its grip on parents and let them live the life they prefer. For some it’ll still be working all the time. Others it’ll be working what they need to, where the need to, to give their family the most time. I don’t qualitatively think one is superior to the other, there are ever present parents that are horrible and distant parents that are wonderful. But as long as that slope points upward and is accelerating, we haven’t finished the apparently desired progress to be made.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#236

Post by _ktx2 »

inconceivable wrote: post #186
_ktx2 wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, it did take optimizing house location/commute, etc To spell the quiet part out loud here, what you're describing is an extreme privilege in a world where homes near tech campuses often go for $1M+. New fathers aren't going to have a down payment for even $600k+. Tech at this point starts as a rich persons game which is why so many tech workers intermarry with other wealthy people. It takes two or a trust fund…

this comment is posted on literally every discussion about money and work on HN. there's always That Guy who points out "won't you think of the people who aren't as x, y, z. don't you know you're privileged! how dare you talk about this!"... this vapid, reflexive concern trolling is tiring and repetitive. so someone will feel bad by reading about your very privileged existence and the fact that you have a job and you…

You really tripped off a cliff in interpreting what I wrote.

The person I replied to said, "I got what you got working remotely by living close to where I work". Do you understand now why there's such a far degree of separation between those two things? Far more people can afford to work remotely than those that can afford to live near a tech campus.

Having privilege isn't shameful. Often privilege is gained along side accomplishments that were earned. Hybrid work is a relevant topic, and a lot of people readily eschew remote workers experience by saying, "You can have all that by living close to campus! Oh it's too expensive to buy? Just rent! Oh, rent is expensive and not nearly comparable to my 10 year old mortgage? Get room mates!" It gets old, and they're not proper analogs.

Anyway, sorry you raged hearing about why this wasn't an analog, have a better day.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#237

Post by Robotbeat »

tra3 wrote: post #171
Robotbeat wrote: post #138

I’m a big remote work skeptic, but this is persuasive to me. Part of the reason I don’t remote work is because I’m unable to focus very well on remote work in a crowded household with small children… I would inevitably be doing more parenting when I should be working. But while that might be bad for work, it’s good for family… (my commute is only 15 minutes, so a lot of the other arguments here don’t really apply. It…

That's a fair criticism. I have the same problem when my kids are home and not at school. Are you able to focus in the office? I feel like most offices are very similar to being at home with small kids in terms of noise levels and interruptions.

My office has dedicated offices but also common work areas, so it’s the best of both worlds and you can choose whatever is feeling the best at the moment.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#238

Post by reaktion »

danielecook wrote: post #191
pradn wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not having to take care of a home sounds great. I can't imagine the Sisyphean task of mowing a lawn every weekend. At least raking leaves can be a peaceful thing - lour mowers can't be peaceful!

I lived in North Carolina for a summer. From 7am - 9pm everyday you can hear leaf blowers. It’s absolutely ridiculous how loud those machines are. I later bought an electric blower and lawn mower. They are super quiet. No exhaust. It helps to have a small yard.

My (NC) property has too many pine trees to maintain with an electric blower and rake, although I've tried! Running the gas blower pains me - I hate the noise it creates, so I try to at least minimize running it and restrict it to afternoons / early evenings. However I have successfully transitioned to an electric mower, which has been great.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#239

Post by inconceivable »

yamazakiwi wrote: post #230
inconceivable wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this comment is posted on literally every discussion about money and work on HN. there's always That Guy who points out "won't you think of the people who aren't as x, y, z. don't you know you're privileged! how dare you talk about this!"... this vapid, reflexive concern trolling is tiring and repetitive. so someone will feel bad by reading about your very privileged existence and the fact that you have a job and you…

Because it is common for people in bubbles to forget, that's the entire point. It should be easy for you to ignore if you've seen it as often as you state. It sounds like you prefer a conversation to be more tailored to your experience, that is normal. In places like HN, a large portion of people live in their bubble and don't see out of it. Bringing up a more common experience is necessary to put a topic in complete…

the fact that you are posting on HN and able to form complete sentences is a privilege. just this morning i walked past a homeless guy that was clearly out of his mind and on drugs. won't you think of him when you enter your bubble of keyboard-ability?

i demand that you acknowledge his state of precariousness in a sacrificial caveat before you speak one more word of your laptop-able existence.

afterwards i demand you meditate for 5 minutes and say your affirmations of gratitude out loud three times.

Re: Early Remote Work Impacts on Family Formation

#240

Post by inconceivable »

_ktx2 wrote: post #236
inconceivable wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this comment is posted on literally every discussion about money and work on HN. there's always That Guy who points out "won't you think of the people who aren't as x, y, z. don't you know you're privileged! how dare you talk about this!"... this vapid, reflexive concern trolling is tiring and repetitive. so someone will feel bad by reading about your very privileged existence and the fact that you have a job and you…

You really tripped off a cliff in interpreting what I wrote. The person I replied to said, "I got what you got working remotely by living close to where I work". Do you understand now why there's such a far degree of separation between those two things? Far more people can afford to work remotely than those that can afford to live near a tech campus. Having privilege isn't shameful. Often privilege is gained along si…

your transparent, smug condescension is greatly appreciated.
Post reply on HN