Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sex and the citizenship process

lux-magazine.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 111 posts

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#21

Post by outworlder »

incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

> I'll just live here as a temporary visa holder instead

Be glad that your temporary visa doesn't expire. That's... not common in other countries.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#22

Post by hibikir »

jMyles wrote: post #9

> The stakes are high — real families can be separated and lives ruined by a denial. It is understandable, then, that some people throw everything they have at the wall during the green card process. The system tells them that marriage, and the sex that consummates it, “is compulsory if you want access to the circuits of movement across borders,” Schaeffer said. What a stupid system. Why are we still doing this in 20…

The reason we need this is because there's a non-trivial amount of people signing marriage papers for a visa. This happens because basically every other road, for a vast majority of people, is closed, or very difficult.

I am married to another immigrant: We had been a couple for quite a few years before marriage, but we did sign papers right away when, through some strange USCIS situation, a whole lot of visas that weren't going to be processed for years became current. She was still in school, so the green card process wasn't available to her yet. If we got married, she would skip at least 6 years of her own green card process, and it'd not cost anyone any extra. This also meant that she could go to any employer, instead of having to look for one sponsoring immigrants: A huge difference.

If it was far easier to become a US citizen, then we'd not have such pressure to sign papers, either for legitimate marriages or straight out fabrications. But it sure seems that the US has no appetite to, say, triple the employment-based visa caps, which I suspect is as much as we'd need to clear up that side of the system, once we take into account the Chinese and Indian side of the backlog.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#23

Post by incompatible »

outworlder wrote: post #21
incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

> I'll just live here as a temporary visa holder instead Be glad that your temporary visa doesn't expire. That's... not common in other countries.

Yeah, it's special for historical reasons, the 444 visa. It's temporary in the sense that it would expire if I left Australia, but I could get another one if I came back. The other downside for any non-citizen is getting deported (or being denied reentry) if the government thinks you are undesirable for any reason.

Edit: and I just want to make clear that I'm not criticising the Australian government in any way with these comments. Please don't deport me.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#24

Post by plantain »

incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

I thought getting an Australian partner visa for my German girlfriend was an expensive and arduous process - a few solid weeks putting together a big binder of all our information, but for 'only' 10,000$AUD and a 3 month wait, she's now a Permanent Resident.

As I understand, it would not be possible in to do the reverse in Germany or most other European countries without waiting many years and getting married.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#25

Post by notch898a »

incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

That can be a bit precarious. For instance, a 444 visa can be revoked based on as little as a DV order. If it's anything like the US, david letterman got a DV order against him just for a woman thinking he was sending secret coded messages through the television.

http://www.ejfi.org/PDF/Nestler_Letterman_TRO.pdf

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#26

Post by incompatible »

plantain wrote: post #24
incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

I thought getting an Australian partner visa for my German girlfriend was an expensive and arduous process - a few solid weeks putting together a big binder of all our information, but for 'only' 10,000$AUD and a 3 month wait, she's now a Permanent Resident. As I understand, it would not be possible in to do the reverse in Germany or most other European countries without waiting many years and getting married.

That was surprisingly fast, I thought there was some kind of waiting list that was years long. The $10,000 AUD absolutely stops me applying.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#27

Post by astura »

robertwt7 wrote: post #2

> Now, submitting graphic materials like this is generally a bad idea. No shit, what are these people thinking? after all of the years of hardwork to get the citizenship, they would just send it for what? for fun??

They are sending them as proof that their relationship is real and legitimate.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#28

Post by incompatible »

notch898a wrote: post #25
incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

That can be a bit precarious. For instance, a 444 visa can be revoked based on as little as a DV order. If it's anything like the US, david letterman got a DV order against him just for a woman thinking he was sending secret coded messages through the television. http://www.ejfi.org/PDF/Nestler_Letterman_TRO.pdf

Absolutely, I think one guy got deported for joining an "outlaw" motorcycle club.

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#29

Post by mths »

incompatible wrote: post #17

Citizenship laws are arbitrary. I live in Australia, with a non-married partner, and we have very similar backgrounds, both being born in the same country (not Australia). But she is an Australian citizen, since it turns out that her mother was Australian and emigrated. I could now also become an Australian citizen, by obtaining a partnership visa, but it's a slow and expensive process involving a lot of intrusive pa…

> I don't lose much besides the right to vote.

I think you mean the obligation to vote. :) Aren't you paying more in taxes and/or losing out on social benefits if ever desired? Say you want to buy a house, larger stamp duty? Have kids, less/no subsidy? Something something medicare benefits?

Re: Sex and the citizenship process

#30

Post by cturner »

jMyles wrote: post #12
sokoloff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the proposed practical alternative to this “stupid system”?

I mean, I'm sure many people have different thoughts, but if you're specifically asking my views on borders, I very much prefer completely open borders. This is a huge country with plenty of room, friendly people, fresh water, and lots of work to be done. I have no interest in my state deciding whether my new neighbors are wanted.

(not an american citizen or resident) Open borders is not a serious public policy position for a western nation.

Western culture is difficult to bootstrap, and requires effort to maintain. In the US, civics are taught to all of your children through the education system. People have shared mythologies about freedom and duty and senses of right and wrong. Even with this, there are strong frictions between traditions.

If you resettled a city of people from Sudan or Afghanistan to a western city, those people would not suddenly become western by virtue of their new geography. In Sweden in the last twenty years, inadequately managed immigration has created a gang and gun crime culture.

I am astonished when I see westerners advocate for open borders. I think it comes from a mistaken assumption that live and let live is the default order in the world. It is not. Live and let live is a hard won cultural achievement, and needs to be tended.

Post reply on HN