Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

express.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 67 posts

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#41

Post by wongarsu »

ljf wrote: post #23
cwmma wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they call those socialist or communist governments. The real question is why they call them far-right and not something else.

Because fascist is too loaded? Nationalist doesn't really cover the ideals this party represents. I wonder if this party would agree with 'far-right' as a descriptor? Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it.

I think Giorgia Meloni isn't that opposed to the term Fascism, as long as it's clear that she doesn't share Mussolini's ideas on race.

> Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it.

Which is good, we should encourage honest labeling of political parties. The bad thing isn't that these parties are far-right or that they call themselves far-right, but that people vote for far-right parties (I would extend the same to far-left, in a European context). That problem won't go away by calling them something else though.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#42

Post by buraktamturk »

fnmron wrote: post #39
buraktamturk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.

Not really, italian law rules in italy, that's out of question.

Not at all. Laws has to be compatible with universal laws, international treaties/laws such as UN Geneva Convention and for Italy also the EU laws. Along many other conditions such as arbitrariness.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#43

Post by readthenotes1 »

kitd wrote: post #30
OliverGuy wrote: post #17

From the article: brought in rules which ban NGO vessels from performing more than one rescue at sea at a time This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article 1. If a commercial vessel (container ship etc) finds a migrant boat in need of rescue and then later finds another also in need of rescue, are they supposed to just leave them? 2. How come Italy can…

Seems like there's an opportunity for NGO boats to distribute the survivors amongst themselves while in international waters. No way for the Italians to know who rescued who. Or, you know, have some humanity and let them come ashore anyway.

have some humanity, don't dump them all in Italy. German flag? Take them to Germany.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#44

Post by nradov »

kitd wrote: post #30
OliverGuy wrote: post #17

From the article: brought in rules which ban NGO vessels from performing more than one rescue at sea at a time This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article 1. If a commercial vessel (container ship etc) finds a migrant boat in need of rescue and then later finds another also in need of rescue, are they supposed to just leave them? 2. How come Italy can…

Seems like there's an opportunity for NGO boats to distribute the survivors amongst themselves while in international waters. No way for the Italians to know who rescued who. Or, you know, have some humanity and let them come ashore anyway.

No one is seriously proposing that migrants be allowed to drown. The real question is whether they should be brought ashore in Italy, or in some other country.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#45

Post by bruceb »

burkaman wrote: post #28
bruceb wrote: post #6

"the far-right government led by Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni" amusing how no leader is ever referred to as far left.

I know you already know this isn't true, but for everyone else, look up coverage of Greek, French, Spanish, or Brazilian politics if you'd like to see some leaders described as far-left.

You don't.

Mainstream news outlets almost never describe leaders as far left.

You brought up Brazil. Lets look at Brazil as framed by New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-elect...

"Brazilians voted out their far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, after a single term and replaced him with former President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva."

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#46

Post by HailingFailing »

buraktamturk wrote: post #37
AS37 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. How come Italy can dictate what foreign vessels (Banksys ship is registered in German as per the article) do in international waters? The answer is basically they can because they can. The ship isn't picking people up and delivering them to Germany, they're picking people up and delivering them to Italy. When the ship is docked in Italy it is at the whim of the Italian authorities.

Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.

[flagged]

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#47

Post by burkaman »

bruceb wrote: post #45
burkaman wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know you already know this isn't true, but for everyone else, look up coverage of Greek, French, Spanish, or Brazilian politics if you'd like to see some leaders described as far-left.

You don't. Mainstream news outlets almost never describe leaders as far left. You brought up Brazil. Lets look at Brazil as framed by New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-elect... "Brazilians voted out their far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, after a single term and replaced him with former President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva."

Ok, if you are specifically reading New York Times articles about Lula, I guess you haven't seen him described as far-left. Of course you will find that term in many other NYT articles (https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/world/europe/spain-podemo..., https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/world/in-spain-rapid-rise..., https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/melenchon-fr..., etc.)

I guess I was wrong about Brazil, it seems like Lula's politics can't really accurately be described as far-left based on his leadership during his first presidency.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#48

Post by bruceb »

burkaman wrote: post #47
bruceb wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't. Mainstream news outlets almost never describe leaders as far left. You brought up Brazil. Lets look at Brazil as framed by New York Times https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/30/world/americas/lula-elect... "Brazilians voted out their far-right leader, Jair Bolsonaro, after a single term and replaced him with former President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva."

Ok, if you are specifically reading New York Times articles about Lula, I guess you haven't seen him described as far-left. Of course you will find that term in many other NYT articles ( https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/30/world/europe/spain-podemo... , https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/world/in-spain-rapid-rise... , https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/26/world/europe/melenchon-fr... , etc.) I guess I was wrong about Bra…

Notice in all the articles you linked to none of the leaders are referred to as "far left leader" but in one of the articles (last one) "far right leader" is used. Same with the article it linked to with Bolsonaro and Lulu.

Sometimes NYT and other mainstream news will say leader of far-left party, but very very rarely will they say the leader is far left. It seems they use "far right leader" more than 10x they use "far left leader"

Far right leader: https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20...

Far left leader:https://www.nytimes.com/search?dropmab=false&query=%22far%20...

Not sure why you are concluding Lula's politics can't be accurately described as far-left, just because NYT won't print that. Not saying its correct or not but NYT isn't 'gospel'

(As yes I do realize the original article doesn't use specifically use "far-right leader" Meloni. The point is many reporters love to tag people they don't like as far right)

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#50

Post by drcongo »

HailingFailing wrote: post #46
buraktamturk wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.

[flagged]

Why did you feel the need to create a new account to post this?
Post reply on HN