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Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

express.co.uk

31–40 of 67 posts

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#31
post #30

From the article: brought in rules which ban NGO vessels from performing more than one rescue at sea at a time This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article 1. If a commercial vessel (container ship etc) finds a migrant boat in need of rescue and then later finds another also in need of rescue, are they supposed to just leave them? 2. How come Italy can…

Seems like there's an opportunity for NGO boats to distribute the survivors amongst themselves while in international waters. No way for the Italians to know who rescued who. Or, you know, have some humanity and let them come ashore anyway.

>Or, you know, have some humanity and let them come ashore anyway.

But practical humanity needs to be backed up by resources to provide to the new arrivals, not just thoughts and prayers: housing, energy, schooling, medical care, jobs, etc. Those aren't in excess supply right now. Many EU countries, like Italy, have seen a Real GDP per capita stagnation since 2008. Since covid and the war, most Europeans have taken a real hit on their wallets and the social services.

If you're stretched thin, with not enough to go around for the locals, they might not accept your humanitarian efort towards outsiders as being in their best interest, and vote for some rightwing muppet with a funny moustache in your place. Not the scenario we need right now.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#32
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Italy's government is far right, it's the most rightward government since WW2

[flagged]

Well it seems like large institutions like Foreign Policy understand what it means.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/24/italy-meloni-government...

   “Yes, neofascists were ‘criminalized’ because they were bombing trains,” said 
   David Broder. The new government, he added, “seems to be under the strange 
   impression that neofascism was ‘criminalized’ by others rather than ‘criminal’ 
   when its members planned terrorist attacks and coups.”

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#33

The Italian coast guard accused the ship of “complicating a delicate rescue coordination operation” and putting more pressure on the migrant reception centre in Lampedusa. The first part is sort of plausible. Having a bunch of cowboys running around can be a big headache for coordination, but the second part? Um, yeah, I guess live migrants do put more pressure on the reception centre than dead ones.

Every dead migrant reduces pressure on the reception centre by some number greater than one, by discouraging other people from trying the same journey.

But if we want to be more charitable, the comment could also be about how Italy tries to find ways to rescue people and dump them on the African side of the Mediterranean instead of in Italy, while the Banksy ship doesn't care about that effort.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#34
post #26

> After rescuing a boat of migrants near Libya, So they pickup migrants from Libya and transfer them to Italy. They should be simply jailed.

no man borders aren't real, you can't see them from space, man, national sovereignty is an antiquated concept man, everyone should just let everyone into their borders who wants in, in as large of quantities as possible, having a high-trust society is an outdated ideal, man, who even wants that anymore? national cohesion, prioritizing the welfare of existing citizens over everyone else—can you even imagine such barbarism? man

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#35
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they call those socialist or communist governments. The real question is why they call them far-right and not something else.

Because fascist is too loaded? Nationalist doesn't really cover the ideals this party represents. I wonder if this party would agree with 'far-right' as a descriptor? Some political movements here in the UK are (sadly) happy to be called far-right and trade on it.

Meloni does not like being described as far-right, but I think it's an especially sensitive term in Italy as that's the birthplace of fascism.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#36

From the article: brought in rules which ban NGO vessels from performing more than one rescue at sea at a time This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article 1. If a commercial vessel (container ship etc) finds a migrant boat in need of rescue and then later finds another also in need of rescue, are they supposed to just leave them? 2. How come Italy can…

> This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article

NGOs are being rate limited but the coast guard is not. This is to prevent the NGOs to overload with comms and requests the coast guard, in the frequent cases in which they are already working on a rescue.

It's a little too easy rhetoric to point out that the current government is right-wing. This is a rule in place to prevent an unorderly and (even more) dangerous rescue.

> "The order was issued as a result of the findings made by IMRCC Rome (rescue coordinating authority) under Decree Law 1/2023, converted into Law 15/2023 and bearing 'urgent provisions on transit and stopover in territorial waters of non-governmental vessels engaged in rescue operations at sea.' The unit, specifically, after carrying out the first rescue operation in Libyan waters, contravened the imparted disposition to reach the port of Trapani, directing instead on 3 other units of migrants on which, moreover, under the coordination of IMRCC Rome, were already directing in rescue the means of the Italian Coast Guard."

> "The dispositions given to the NGO ship, given its small size, were also aimed at preventing it from taking on board such a number of people as to jeopardize both its own safety and that of the migrant boats to which it would provide rescue. The failure to comply with the provisions, moreover, slowed down the achievement of a port of disembarkation for the migrants rescued in the first intervention, initially identified in that of Trapani by the Ministry of the Interior, thus inducing the decision to redesign the arrival of the NGO, for reasons of safety and urgency, in the port of Lampedusa, already, moreover, solicited by the numerous arrivals of migrants in recent days."

> "To such behavior, which in itself already complicated the delicate work of coordinating relief," it goes on to read, "were added the continuous calls from the NGO air assets that overloaded the communication systems of the national relief coordination center, overlapping and duplicating the signals of the already present state air assets. Similarly, the incident cited by NGO Ocean Viking and referring to alleged Libyan coast guard gunfire that occurred in the SAR area falling under the responsibility of another national coordination center, was not being reported to the flag country as would be required by navigation safety regulations, but rather to the Italian coordination center on a continuous basis, again ending up overloading the IMRCC at particularly intensive times of ongoing relief efforts. Nevertheless, in 48 hours more than 3,300 people aboard 58 boats were rescued under the coordination of the Italian Coast Guard."

If you want to translate by yourself:

> “Il provvedimento è stato emesso a seguito degli accertamenti effettuati da IMRCC Roma (autorità coordinatrice dei soccorsi) in base al DL 1/2023, convertito nella legge 15/2023 e recante ‘disposizioni urgenti in materia di transito e sosta nelle acque territoriali delle navi non governative impegnate nelle operazioni di soccorso in mare’. L’unità, nello specifico, dopo aver effettuato il primo intervento di soccorso in acque libiche, contravveniva all’impartita disposizione di raggiungere il porto di Trapani, dirigendo invece su altre 3 unità di migranti sulle quali, peraltro, sotto il coordinamento di IMRCC Roma, stavano già dirigendo in soccorso i mezzi della Guardia Costiera italiana“.

> “Le disposizioni impartite alla nave Ong, valutate le sue piccole dimensioni, erano altresì tese a evitare che la stessa prendesse a bordo un numero di persone tale da pregiudicare sia la sua sicurezza che quella delle imbarcazioni di migranti a cui avrebbe prestato soccorso. La non osservanza delle disposizioni, inoltre, ha rallentato il raggiungimento di un porto di sbarco per i migranti salvati nel primo intervento, inizialmente individuato in quello di Trapani dal Ministero dell’Interno, inducendo così a ridisegnare la decisione in modo da far convergere l’arrivo della Ong, per motivi di sicurezza e di urgenza, nel porto di Lampedusa, già peraltro sollecitato dai numerosi arrivi di migranti di questi ultimi giorni“.

> “A tale comportamento che già di per sé complicava il delicato lavoro di coordinamento dei soccorsi – si legge ancora – si sommavano le continue chiamate dei mezzi aerei ONG che hanno sovraccaricato i sistemi di comunicazione del centro nazionale di coordinamento dei soccorsi, sovrapponendosi e duplicando le segnalazioni dei già presenti assetti aerei dello Stato. Allo stesso modo, l’episodio citato da ONG Ocean Viking e riferito ai presunti spari della guardia costiera libica avvenuto in area SAR ricadente nella responsabilità di un altro centro di coordinamento nazionale, non veniva riportato al Paese di bandiera come sarebbe previsto dalle norme sulla sicurezza della navigazione, bensì al centro di coordinamento italiano, in modo continuativo, finendo anche questo col sovraccaricare l’IMRCC in momenti particolarmente intensivi di soccorsi in atto. Ciononostante, in 48 ore sono state soccorse, sotto il coordinamento della Guardia Costiera Italiana, oltre 3300 persone a bordo di 58 imbarcazioni”.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#37
post #24

From the article: brought in rules which ban NGO vessels from performing more than one rescue at sea at a time This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article 1. If a commercial vessel (container ship etc) finds a migrant boat in need of rescue and then later finds another also in need of rescue, are they supposed to just leave them? 2. How come Italy can…

> 2. How come Italy can dictate what foreign vessels (Banksys ship is registered in German as per the article) do in international waters? The answer is basically they can because they can. The ship isn't picking people up and delivering them to Germany, they're picking people up and delivering them to Italy. When the ship is docked in Italy it is at the whim of the Italian authorities.

Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#38
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Well it seems like large institutions like Foreign Policy understand what it means. https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/11/24/italy-meloni-government... “Yes, neofascists were ‘criminalized’ because they were bombing trains,” said David Broder. The new government, he added, “seems to be under the strange impression that neofascism was ‘criminalized’ by others rather than ‘criminal’ when its members planned terrorist attac…

[flagged]

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#39
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2. How come Italy can dictate what foreign vessels (Banksys ship is registered in German as per the article) do in international waters? The answer is basically they can because they can. The ship isn't picking people up and delivering them to Germany, they're picking people up and delivering them to Italy. When the ship is docked in Italy it is at the whim of the Italian authorities.

Legally speaking, they can't. It doesn't matter where the ship will be docking. Anything otherwise is a crime against humanity. International laws and EU laws are bigger than any Italian authority and Italian laws that has been ever established.

Not really, italian law rules in italy, that's out of question.

Re: Banksy ship saving migrants at sea detained in Italy for 'breaking rules'

#40
post #30

From the article: brought in rules which ban NGO vessels from performing more than one rescue at sea at a time This seems like a bit of an over reach. Maybe someone can provide some context that is missing in the article 1. If a commercial vessel (container ship etc) finds a migrant boat in need of rescue and then later finds another also in need of rescue, are they supposed to just leave them? 2. How come Italy can…

Seems like there's an opportunity for NGO boats to distribute the survivors amongst themselves while in international waters. No way for the Italians to know who rescued who. Or, you know, have some humanity and let them come ashore anyway.

You still have to know who is coming, especially the number, to start a search and rescue operation if someone is suspected to be still in the sea.
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