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Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

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Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#691

Post by rayiner »

themitigating wrote: post #689
rayiner wrote: post #680

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is "manipulating the debate." The book linked above is the most challenged book in these efforts: https://www.npr.org/2022/04/04/1090067026/efforts-to-ban-boo... . The American Library Association gave that book its Alex Award in 2020, for books for children 12-18. It's not some random book cherry-picked out of nowhere. None of the books are "being banned." States are deciding what taxpayer-funded school libra…

" I can’t help but notice your attempt to imply that Florida educators were somehow trying to suppress “Venezuelan, Cuban, and Puerto Rican” authors with your example " I don't know how you are noticing anything when I seriously just picked a random book and said nothing about their ethnicity. No where in my argument did I use that as an argument. "None of the books are "being banned." States are deciding what taxpay…

> That's still a form of a ban. You highlighted that it's taxpayer funded, which to me means it's a violation of the first amendment. If it was a private library then that would be fine.

It doesn't violate the first amendment for the same reason it would violate the first amendment for the government to tell Barnes and Noble that it can't stock those books. When the government buys books with taxpayer money and makes them available in a taxpayer-financed public library, the government is the speaker. The first amendment permits the government to have a particular viewpoint when it acts as a speaker and provider of services.

> "And Tango Makes Three"[1] is banned in the Lake Country School District for K-3 [2] The stated reason is: "Administrative removal as per HB 1557 due to sexual orientation/gender identification". The book is a children's book about gay penguins. There's no sex in it and therefore it's not pornographic. Why is this justified?

As you admit, that is a book directed at children. Children don't think about penguins as having any sexual orientation. Sexual attraction is not a concept that's appropriate to introduce to young children.

> I believe the true purpose of this law is to enforce moral values on the community and attack gays/etc by hiding their existence. The goal being to appease conservative Republicans and/or evangelicals who consistently vote Republican.

Yes, but the moral value that's being enforced is sheltering children from being exposed to concepts of sex, sexuality, and sexual attraction. Conservative Republicans and evangelicals support that goal, but so do most people. I have literally never heard my Biden-voting Muslim-immigrant parents say the word "sex" or the Bangladeshi equivalent. And I'm married with three kids! The subject is nonetheless completely taboo. That's even though all of us support same-sex marriage in the abstract.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#692

Post by themitigating »

rayiner wrote: post #683
themitigating wrote: post #674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" It revealed that the librarians teaching your kids are a lot more progressive about kids exploring their sexuality than even Obama-voting parents w" Source? I ask because I didn't know librarians teach kids

Do you have a kid (or remember being one)? We had scheduled trips to the library and librarians were actively involved in recommending books, both to individuals and in terms of reading lists.

I don't but let me back up, I'm not doubting that happened. Can you provide a source for when a librarian taught sexed or something along those lines to kids?

How does banning books fix this? Was the person following the library's guidelines?

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#693

Post by rayiner »

themitigating wrote: post #692
rayiner wrote: post #683

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a kid (or remember being one)? We had scheduled trips to the library and librarians were actively involved in recommending books, both to individuals and in terms of reading lists.

I don't but let me back up, I'm not doubting that happened. Can you provide a source for when a librarian taught sexed or something along those lines to kids? How does banning books fix this? Was the person following the library's guidelines?

My third grader came home with a Pride sticker. To be clear, we have always told her that "sometimes kids have two mommies or two daddies and that's okay." But Pride also is wrapped up in a general positive and open attitude about sexuality that is inconsistent with my values. And frankly I don't trust my kids' liberal white teachers to talk about these subjects. There's clearly a huge disconnect between their values and my values.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#694

Post by dang »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #367
kepler1 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are LGBT youth for some reason the special subgroup of people against whom every concern about rights being tested against? More so than anyone else's rights? It's like they somehow occupy a privileged position in your mind that everyone has to watch out for this group. Why is that?

[flagged]

Could you please stop posting ideological battle comments and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly, and we've already asked you not to. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#695

Post by themitigating »

rayiner wrote: post #693
themitigating wrote: post #692

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't but let me back up, I'm not doubting that happened. Can you provide a source for when a librarian taught sexed or something along those lines to kids? How does banning books fix this? Was the person following the library's guidelines?

My third grader came home with a Pride sticker. To be clear, we have always told her that "sometimes kids have two mommies or two daddies and that's okay." But Pride also is wrapped up in a general positive and open attitude about sexuality that is inconsistent with my values. And frankly I don't trust my kids' liberal white teachers to talk about these subjects. There's clearly a huge disconnect between their values…

I asked you for evidence of this claim

"It revealed that the librarians teaching your kids are a lot more progressive about kids exploring their sexuality "

And your proof is that your kid came home once with a pride sticker, which is about gay rights, but you have redefined to mean being open sexually and sex positive which you then say you are against.

Hating gay people is the same as hating all black people and is objectively wrong

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#696

Post by chownie »

junofan wrote: post #685
chownie wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "that account" (???) you mean the charity investigating right wing extremism in the USA then sure but I think that's a pretty sad response all in all. > I’ll trust my eyes over what’s written in Wikipedia. Wikipedia editors generally exhibit honest behaviour that your preferred propaganda outlet handler Chaya Raichik conspicuously lacks. The authors of the wiki page haven't sicced an online mob on anyone, I'd c…

I have no idea what this is but it doesn’t seem like that big a deal.

If you're not here to engage in good faith just say that rather than openly wasting my time.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#697

Post by mixmastamyk »

themitigating wrote: post #690
mixmastamyk wrote: post #686

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh but we do. Kids have been prohibited from entering bars and buying tobacco, by law for a long time. We generally think that's a good thing, and why it continues to be law.

Ok that's fair. It turns out that guns are the leading cause of death for kids in the US. Can we make exceptions to the 2nd admendment?

Important to keep in mind that, the Bill of Rights limits the federal government, not individuals.

That said, I'd like to see some restrictions/consequences around gun violence in homes, but unsure how that conflicts with 2A; IANAL.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#698

Post by rayiner »

themitigating wrote: post #695
rayiner wrote: post #693

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My third grader came home with a Pride sticker. To be clear, we have always told her that "sometimes kids have two mommies or two daddies and that's okay." But Pride also is wrapped up in a general positive and open attitude about sexuality that is inconsistent with my values. And frankly I don't trust my kids' liberal white teachers to talk about these subjects. There's clearly a huge disconnect between their values…

I asked you for evidence of this claim "It revealed that the librarians teaching your kids are a lot more progressive about kids exploring their sexuality " And your proof is that your kid came home once with a pride sticker, which is about gay rights, but you have redefined to mean being open sexually and sex positive which you then say you are against. Hating gay people is the same as hating all black people and is…

In a country where same sex marriage is already the law of the land, and has overwhelming public support, you think that there’s not a high degree of overlap between Pride and those who have liberal attitudes on sex for other reasons? As a racial minority I can tell you that the people organizing marches on that basis typically have views that are much more radical than protecting interracial marriage.

Half the country thinks it’s okay for teenagers to have sex and another half thinks it’s immoral: https://news.gallup.com/poll/393515/americans-say-birth-cont.... You think the teachers who send third graders home with a Pride sticker aren’t overwhelmingly in the pro-teenage sex camp? You think the folks at the American library association who gave a book with explicit depictions of underage kids having sex don’t support such conduct? How to socialize kids about sex and sexuality is a multi-faceted subject that involves sensitivities that have nothing to do with gay people. You can reduce it to that if you want but you’re left scratching your head why people who overwhelmingly support same sex marriage can also support laws to more carefully curate what books public libraries make available.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#699

Post by rayiner »

autoexec wrote: post #676
rayiner wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that the economy, or is it the way people are socialized to think about the economy, and life in general? The suicide rate in America is four times higher than in the poor developing country I’m from.

Being poor is depressing, but I suspect watching your standard of living decline, your hopes and dreams destroyed, and your children forced to struggle in ways you or your parents never had to before hits harder.

If you have socialized people into a culture where higher housing and educational costs more than offsetting the fact you make more money than your parents did at the same age causes four times as many people to kill the selves than folks in a Bangladeshi village, then I’m sorry the problem is your culture. You have created a culture where people have no resilience to a bump in the road.

Re: Utah is first US state to limit teen social media access

#700

Post by acuozzo »

rayiner wrote: post #609
heavyset_go wrote: post #598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://jonathanhaidt.substack.com/p/the-teen-mental-illness... I don't necessarily buy the premise that the economy isn't having poor effects on teenagers' mental health just because the GFC is "over". Maybe to financial markets it is, but for people who need to work for a living, things changed since 2008 for the worse. Teens are more likely to see their parents struggle to pay bills despite working full-time and…

Is that the economy, or is it the way people are socialized to think about the economy, and life in general? The suicide rate in America is four times higher than in the poor developing country I’m from.

The poor in your country know how to be poor.

After decades of prosperity, the USA has lost the majority of the generational knowledge and skills that poor people pass on to their children. I've spoken with people who spend almost an entire day's wage on a visit to the local laundromat.

Moreover, the poor here have very little access to mutual aid networks due to the loss of "third places" like churches. It's not uncommon to hear of poor people here having their children taken away by the state because they were just making ends meet and can't afford to pay for child care and have nobody to rely on to watch their kids after school; not even a neighbor.

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