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I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

kooslooijesteijn.net

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Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#161

Post by ChildOfChaos »

nehal3m wrote: post #73

At some point you're better off switching to a dumb phone for phone calls and a tablet with a data-SIM for everything else.

I found when I got an iPad (I never had a laptop at home), that I stopped using my phone much but when I do use it, I still need all the main features of a smartphone, like a decent camera, apps to manage everything (maps, public transport tickets, apps to order food/drinks etc), sadly everything is in a very app world these days.

I wish there would be more effort put into making more basic smartphones, less running full blown OS and just have a few basic functions, like a decent camera, internet access, messaging and maps, but because they are mini computers they are bloated as hell.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#162

Post by Idiot_in_Vain »

datadeft wrote: post #92
vanilla_nut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

This ship has sailed when people accepted that everything lives in the cloud and companies can dictate what you can, can't and must do with your own property. The last thing they cannot take away and cannot control is offline physical goods, like books for example.

>> The last thing they cannot take away and cannot control is offline physical goods, like books for example.

Not really. E.g. can download mp3 music and mp4 movies on my own HD and so far Microsoft Defender hasn't deleted them.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#163

Post by wccrawford »

ovao wrote: post #132
ericpauley wrote: post #129

The analysis of phone lifetimes based on software support is dubious. Apple generally supports groups of devices together that are similar hardware. Given iPhones 12-14 are virtually identical I’d expect these will all lose support around the same time. Generally, this article is apple hate on steroids!! Apple is still releasing security updates for a 7-year-old device; name a mainstream android phone that’s doing th…

I don’t think you read the article fully. The gripe is more about what mobile app developers do with respect to long-term support for older hardware/OS versions and much less about what Apple does.

Apple and Google now both require that you keep your app up to date with the new SDKs, even if your app works perfectly fine on the old version. As you upgrade to fix changes for that, it gets harder and hard to maintain support for older OSes. I'm not at all surprised that most app developers don't spend the time to ensure that their app continues to work on older devices, especially those that have a tiny marketshare now.

You can blame it on the developer for not supporting that, but it's in response to things that Apple and Google are doing, and I'd argue that they're really the ones at fault.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#164

Post by scarface74 »

vanilla_nut wrote: post #80
terhechte wrote: post #8

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it i…

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

> Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software

This is not true and hasn’t been true since around the time that iOS 7 came out.

About two years ago, I dusted off an old first gen iPad (circa 2010). I reset it and I was able to download “the last compatible version”. It’s option given to you by the App Store. I was able to use Netflix, Hulu, Crackle, Spotify, Google Drive to read PDFs.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#165

Post by makeitdouble »

terhechte wrote: post #8

If they want to use an old phone, they can just stop updating their apps and not installing new apps. I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. It is not just the overhead of supporting multiple different OS versions with different technologies, it i…

Fun fact: as iPad batteries are glued[0], when requested Apple won't renew the battery alone and do full machine exchanges (but charge for the price of the battery only). So if you ever update your iPad 3 battery you'll probably need to do local backups to keep your apps if they got removed from the Store or you need a specific version.

Otherwise that's 50+ steps of fun to change the battery yourself: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iPad+3+Wi-Fi+Battery+Replacemen...

[0] at least before the latest models ? Did they stop doing that ?

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#166

Post by wiredfool »

jclardy wrote: post #78
lotsofpulp wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The replacement is an 800eur ipad, because it's now effectively a pro model rather than the cheap one, and I'm not sure I can justify that. I find this hard to believe. A $300 iPad mini 2 from 2015 is comparable in specs to an 800 Euro 2023 iPad Pro? Edit: Actually, you can compare them directly on Apple’s website: https://www.apple.com/ipad/compare/?modelList=ipad-mini-2,ip... Even the current iPad mini (6th gen)…

That's because it isn't true, the replacement is the $599 iPad Mini 6 which is in a completely different class of tablet. Even the $300 iPad would outclass it by a mile. Mini 6 has regularly been on sale for $499 as well since it is now long in the tooth already.

Size, not specs.

If I want a mini with cell, it's 800 eur, which might be 600 moneys where you live, but VAT is included here.

Actually, 64GB mini with Wifi+Cellular is 869 eur in Ireland, just checked there. When I bought my original mini, it was the cheapest new iOS device with a cell radio.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#167

Post by dmix »

Phiwise_ wrote: post #149

>Buys apple phone >Shocked at cost of keeping up with normal industry progress I always think I'll never be surprised again by the sheer scale of compartmentalization of knowledge some people in this industry are capable of.

If your point is that they would have experienced better software longevity with an Android device I have a bridge to sell you. The slow software issues experienced by older phones is universal across the industry. And buying cheap disposable Android phones means you’re trading off quality in hardware. My mom’s android phone went from really slow to completely unusable within 3yrs after an OS update.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#168

Post by gtvwill »

seqizz wrote: post #33
traverseda wrote: post #7

I'd like to see "right to downgrade" put in to law, if I buy a product I should have the option to have it run older firmware, or play an older version of a game I bought.

So should we force product owners to support multiple older versions of clients, even though the backend is progressed? Who will pay for this extra cost, the users who don't upgrade their devices? I don't think so. Do every rule has to be written, or does writing them into law makes it logical every time? App owners can add "we only support client versions which is max 6 months older than current stable version" to t…

Force the release of all code that product was sold with in its factory state to users along with code for all updates applied to that factory state during its company supported lifetime. Firmware blobs the lot.

Corporate profits aren't an acceptable excuse for negligent business practices that push a forced culture of wasteful consumption. Apple needs to pull their head in along with many others in the tech world.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#169

Post by TeMPOraL »

londons_explore wrote: post #46
pch00 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still own a iPad 3 with the same, old, software stack from 2013. It still works, I can do things. I just don't expect todays developers to make a herculean effort so that I can run their apps on my old device. The fact that "it still works" isn't the only consideration though - it's the security posture. There's plenty of remotely-exploitable flaws in that software stack from 2013.

Remember back in 2002 where if you connect an unpatched windows machine to the internet, it would only be a few minutes before it got infected? Well running unpatched stuff is no longer like that. I bet you could use a 2013 iDevice for a whole year and not get exploited once. Exploits are mostly against the rich and famous now, and not so much against regular joe.

> Remember back in 2002 where if you connect an unpatched windows machine to the internet, it would only be a few minutes before it got infected?

Was that actually true, or just an urban legend? I've heard this a lot back then, but never actually saw it happen.

Re: I don’t want a new phone, but I’m probably buying one

#170

Post by moonbas3 »

WrtCdEvrydy wrote: post #95
vanilla_nut wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you cannot. Apple does not give you the freedom to use old versions of software. You can't downgrade your iOS version. You can only upgrade apps, and iOS only lets you download the latest available version of an app for your version of iOS. Need to do a device reset? If you have managed to keep any apps on old versions, you'll get upgraded now. And you can't even save APKs and sideload because of Apple's develope…

You can install any version using AppStore++ which is available when you jailbreak. The older the phone, the easier the jailbreak. You can always download the app version that works for your phone using the Purchased section... the only real phone I have yet to be able to do this for is the iPhone 4 which did not have 64-bit apps. My iPhone 5S and beyond all have access to every app that is available for 64-bit OS. I…

This is out of the question for any normal user and is also not reliable at all. When you install a Jailbreak you are by default giving up on a plethora of apps which do proper checks and they won't work at all even if you try to bypass them (banking especially).

Older iOS versions have other problems as well. Safari is not an app that you can update, it's part of the OS. A lot of websites will simply stop working for you if your version is too old.

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