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The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

mullvad.net

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Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#131

Post by feeela »

derefr wrote: post #70
0xy wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because EU residents allowed them to continue to legislate themselves into irrelevancy. Nobody spoke against GDPR, which is an utterly toothless annoyance. GDPR achieved nothing notable for data security and privacy, except by spamming cookie prompts and training users to accept anything. The EU is an incompetent, lumbering, bureaucratic hellscape. It expanded FAR beyond its original remit of a customs union, and in…

GDPR has forced many large companies to implement data retention policies enabling the (eventual) purge of data related to closed accounts. Before GDPR, account data was usually just kept around forever.

Only tru for those european nations, who hadn't that in their national laws already.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#132

Post by feeela »

rsync wrote: post #94
TOMDM wrote: post #2

This is especially important in the age of LLM's. Large scale surveillance while abusive and harmful has historically been limited in scale by the ability of those in control to trawl through data. Automated "moderation" of dragnet communications collection with modern AI holds the potential for a scale of abusive privacy invasion at unprecedented scales.

Interesting… I was thinking the opposite… My personal ability to generate millions of real-looking messages has now exploded and I wonder how these proposed structures will function if everyone sends each other 1k suspicious messages every minute of every day ? Maybe attach a zip-bomb to every message just for good measure?

But who actually does that? We need billions of people doing that every day to have an effect.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#133

Post by wizzwizz4 »

dover wrote: post #111
concordDance wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect initially only those who are unpopular and unlikely to be defended by the public will be prosecuted. Then over time more political enemies (probably starting with "trans women aren't women" activists) will be prosecuted and the slow slide begins...

[flagged]

That's highly regional and cultural. Few people probably believe the idea you have in your head, but, then, few people are probably espousing it.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#134

Post by bt4u »

feeela wrote: post #125
maxilevi wrote: post #7

Why every 12 months the European Commission comes up with a total dumb and authoritarian proposal and we have to actively fight it? It’s just tiring

Because the European Commission is not a democratic institutionen! Those bureaucrats are mostly announced, not elected. And each European nation is only sending those politicians into the Commission, that are unwanted in national politics. In other words: The European Commission is the autocratic reservoir for conservative politicians that were to extremistic for national audiences.

[dead]

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#135

Post by peoplefromibiza »

cardosof wrote: post #11

If I lived in the EU I'd want to know who are proposing this kind of stuff and help with anything that gets them far from public and government -related jobs forever, but hey, that's me. Lots of people like to give up a bit of freedom and privacy in exchange for an increased sense of security.

> If I lived in the EU I'd want to know who are proposing this kind of stuff

We all know who these people are.

It's a public discussion.

> and help with anything that gets them far from public and government

It simply means winning the elections at the EU parliament, which, unfortunately for Mullvad, it's not something they will ever be able to do.

Mullvad posts might be popular here on HN, maybe, but they move no more than a few thousands votes in the EU (we are 450 million people).

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#136

Post by cft »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #118
photochemsyn wrote: post #30

Suggested alternative: The "End Political Corruption Proposal" "Given that political corruption is rife in European countries, with great detriments to the healthy function of government, all politicians in positions where they may be engaging in corrupt behavior must submit to 24-7 audio and video surveillance, which will be piped over public platforms for crowdsourcing of corruption detection. All personal communic…

I'm totally fine with raising their paychecks by a factor of 10 for their loss of privacy if we implement this... the amount of money we'd save elswhere dur to less corruption would be a few orders of magnitude higher.

You don't even need to raise it that much. One can implement onlyfans.com business model when their electorate pays to them for access to their cam feeds.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#137

Post by fanagra32 »

atlgator wrote: post #71
worik wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be world changing, the complete abolition of all privacy. Little drones that followed everybody around, everywhere, broadcasting and storing every thing everybody does, or says, everywhere they go, and what they do. No. I do not recommend it. But the thought experiment is interesting.

It's an opt-in scenario. People aren't forced to be politicians.

Politics already suffers heavily from not getting the best-of-the-best. Making it even less attractive to become a politician is unlikely to improve upon that.

In the totality of all politicians out there that you have an opinion about, which fraction of them do you like, in terms of thinking they are the right person for the job? Do you think this fraction would improve with that opt-in scenario implemented?

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#138

Post by notahacker »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #118
photochemsyn wrote: post #30

Suggested alternative: The "End Political Corruption Proposal" "Given that political corruption is rife in European countries, with great detriments to the healthy function of government, all politicians in positions where they may be engaging in corrupt behavior must submit to 24-7 audio and video surveillance, which will be piped over public platforms for crowdsourcing of corruption detection. All personal communic…

I'm totally fine with raising their paychecks by a factor of 10 for their loss of privacy if we implement this... the amount of money we'd save elswhere dur to less corruption would be a few orders of magnitude higher.

We've already had some experiments about "what if we select politicians based on their love for being on TV and their lack of concern about concealing their corruption" and the results aren't good...

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#139

Post by peoplefromibiza »

mongol wrote: post #15
cardosof wrote: post #11

If I lived in the EU I'd want to know who are proposing this kind of stuff and help with anything that gets them far from public and government -related jobs forever, but hey, that's me. Lots of people like to give up a bit of freedom and privacy in exchange for an increased sense of security.

It is EU commissioner Ylva Johansson. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do. She is not elected to this position, but appointed, and in this case by a former government who is no longer in power.

> She is not elected to this position, but appointed

She is appointed and vetted by the parliament, who is elected directly by the people.

So the commissioners do not come from Mars, they are emissaries of the elected parliament.

Re: The chat control proposal does not belong in democratic societies

#140

Post by fanagra32 »

maxilevi wrote: post #7

Why every 12 months the European Commission comes up with a total dumb and authoritarian proposal and we have to actively fight it? It’s just tiring

It is a large machinery and what you are seeing there is the long tail on one end.

There are lots of good things coming out of the European Commission and some really great things. Obviously there is going to come some crap to, and a few really really bad things, like this one. I agree that it's tiring to fight those, but there is no sunshine without rain.

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