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No longer loving Google

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Re: No longer loving Google

#61

Post by nostromo »

ry0ohki wrote: post #42
pg wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that's the most worrying sign. In the past Google won by making what people needed. But it seems clear that was not their primary motivation for SPYW. Their primary motivation was clearly fear of Facebook. That hasn't made Google evil yet. It's just the first step down the road to mediocrity. Which may lead to evil in the long term, because to make lots of money despite being mediocre, you generally have to d…

I don't believe Google is intentionally being evil, but they are definitely behaving a lot like the company they coined the phrase because of. In the 90s Microsoft was using it's huge installed user base advantage to push it's less popular and new-to-the-game browser on a group of people, while also keeping out the competition with some unfair ways. This seems identical to how Google is using it's position as leader…

Changing your search engine is easy. Changing your OS is not.

Re: No longer loving Google

#62

Post by batista »

And if a big company like Google can't avoid being evil, then what world-changing enterprise can?

A company owned by actual persons, i.e. a privately owned company, can better avoid turning evil. There are lots of world-changing privately owned companies, especially in Europe.

Profit seeking by committee (a.k.a. board and stockholders), turns companies into un-ethical, maximum-profit seeking machines. Even more so, since noone feels like he has "real" responsibility for the whole company's actions).

Re: No longer loving Google

#63

Post by agravier »

pamelafox wrote: post #11

When I first started working at Google, I truly loved them as a user-facing company. And for the first few years, I thought I would work there forever and I could imagine no other place for me. But by the time I left, I was bitter and no longer in love. For various reasons, I felt like I had been betrayed by what I thought Google was at the beginning. It is my fault for having such idealistic expectations for what ul…

> idealistic expectations for what ultimately boils down to a money-driven company

Are there non-profit-driven companies counting more than 10 people?

Re: No longer loving Google

#64

Post by ekianjo »

hbar wrote: post #52
gabaix wrote: post #14

Mozilla Foundation has not moved on its position of bringing good. I think any IPO company is ultimately compelled to choose profits over values.

In a public corporation, this is always true. The first responsibility is to the shareholders. This point seems to be frequently overlooked.

Agree, but they should always keep in mind what made them successful in the first place: the fact that they had backing from users. The day you start listening more to your shareholders than you spend time with your users, there's something really wrong going on.

Re: No longer loving Google

#65

Post by logn »

Whether we love or hate google, we sure love to either love or hate google. Companies like, say, 3M would kill to be "hated" and "evil" like google is. Our hate is really more like us picking on that girl we like.

Re: No longer loving Google

#66

Post by andywood »

NelsonMinar wrote: post #15
pamelafox wrote: post #11

When I first started working at Google, I truly loved them as a user-facing company. And for the first few years, I thought I would work there forever and I could imagine no other place for me. But by the time I left, I was bitter and no longer in love. For various reasons, I felt like I had been betrayed by what I thought Google was at the beginning. It is my fault for having such idealistic expectations for what ul…

Hey Pamela! I fear you had a particularly rough time at Google. Bad project luck, also coming in later. I do look back at my time on Google as fondly as, say, graduate school. Particularly the early years, 2001–2004, it was a truly amazing place to be. That's why I wrote this post up, I just feel sad about where Google is now. Fortunately there's organizations like Y Combinator and places like Hacker News with a lot…

I don't think it's any coincidence that I remember 1998-2004 as the era when "Little" Google consistently wowed me, as a user, with every product, every feature, even every verbal statement that you made.

The specific feeling of trust that I had during that time, due to an impeccable track record - trust that they would always do what I intuitively perceived to be the right thing, is long gone. Whether it's the all-holy SERP, or the grand strategy, my highest hope is that further decline will be as slow as possible. I do not believe that it is possible for any company, under any circumstances, to grow that large without losing its way. It's simply the nature of human organizations.

Re: No longer loving Google

#67

Post by waqf »

nostromo wrote: post #61
ry0ohki wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't believe Google is intentionally being evil, but they are definitely behaving a lot like the company they coined the phrase because of. In the 90s Microsoft was using it's huge installed user base advantage to push it's less popular and new-to-the-game browser on a group of people, while also keeping out the competition with some unfair ways. This seems identical to how Google is using it's position as leader…

Changing your search engine is easy. Changing your OS is not.

How about changing your webmail provider, your mobile OS and the cloud services integrated with it?

Re: No longer loving Google

#68

Post by marshray »

ajross wrote: post #58
cageface wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a single company has a record of almost everything I do online I have to hold them to a much higher standard than other companies. Arguments about Google's intentions tend to swing to the emotional because the nature of their business requires that we trust them indefinitely. And the way they've handled a handful of these issues recently signals to me that they're feeling more and more comfortable straining that…

Arguably, it's also a barometer of Google's increasing status as the primary corporate enemy of Apple Computer, Inc. My gut tells me that if someone actually did the survey they'd find that "Google is Evil" posts and upvotes correlate less with Civil Libertarian politics than they do with the manufacturer of the poster's phone and laptop.

Well, I haven't noticed that but I'm not out there in CA or an iPhone or a Mac user. The alleged Google/Apple hiring blacklist conspiracy seemed to cast them both in a pretty awful light.

But the plural of "gut feeling" is not "data", it's...hmmm.

Re: No longer loving Google

#69

Post by stock_toaster »

ajross wrote: post #58
cageface wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a single company has a record of almost everything I do online I have to hold them to a much higher standard than other companies. Arguments about Google's intentions tend to swing to the emotional because the nature of their business requires that we trust them indefinitely. And the way they've handled a handful of these issues recently signals to me that they're feeling more and more comfortable straining that…

Arguably, it's also a barometer of Google's increasing status as the primary corporate enemy of Apple Computer, Inc. My gut tells me that if someone actually did the survey they'd find that "Google is Evil" posts and upvotes correlate less with Civil Libertarian politics than they do with the manufacturer of the poster's phone and laptop.

That seems to be an odd 'gut reaction'.

Is it not possible for someone to be an Apple/iOS or $Manufacturer/Android user and have their own opinions about _anything_ without it somehow being either labeled as fanboyism or anti-fanboyism?

I am tired of this false dilemma.

Re: No longer loving Google

#70

Post by waqf »

spazcat wrote: post #55
cromwellian wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't trust everything you see on PandoDaily if I were you. You're never going to find any large organization that satisfies all of your wishes, even a non-profit has internal political struggles. But on a relative scale of evilness, which big companies would you want to work for? For example, Apple (Doesn't trust employees, has them work on fake products, super-compartmentalized secrecy on campus, has agents sp…

I've heard that they require that employees sign a new NDA every time there is a company all-hands. The place reeks of lack of trust and just sounds _depressing_ to work at.

Google, or Apple?
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