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Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

theguardian.com

101–110 of 377 posts

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#101

> “All this crypto stuff, it needed parallel processing, and [Nvidia] is the best, so people just programmed it to use for this purpose. They bought a lot of stuff, and then eventually it collapsed, because it doesn’t bring anything useful for society. AI does,” Kagan told the Guardian. No, the crypto mining industry collapsed because the largest GPU-mined cryptocurrency (Ethereum) removed the ability for people to m…

> No, the crypto mining industry collapsed because the largest GPU-mined cryptocurrency (Ethereum) removed the ability for people to mine it with GPUs. Crypto obviously does not "need parallel processing" in the way that Nvidia GPUs provide it, because Ethereum removed that requirement entirely.

Absolutely correct.

At least cryptocurrencies like Ethereum found an alternative consensus method that is efficient and environmentally friendly, unlike what I am seeing in AI and deep neural networks for decades which that still has not changed with the way on how models continue to get larger and require more planet incinerating power and will currently require millions and in the future, billions of dollars to train. As long as they stay inefficient, Nvidia will continue smiling knowing that.

The end result is a pseduo-intelligent black box that confidently hallucinates and can get confused by a single bad input - rendering it useless. Once it all goes wrong, then it gets re-trained / fine-tuned again, wasting more energy. Inference requiring tons of GPUs is also wasteful and inefficient.

The moment we switch to better and efficient alternative in training deep neural networks at scale, that I would call a 'breakthrough' in AI rather than throwing more data, more GPUs at the problem.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#102

We have been doing finance for centuries and governance for millennial. The internet has been around for a few decades. If Crypto is going to have meaningful impact on either of those two domains it may take a while. I agree there are many grifter scammy things in crypto. Fwiw it seems plausible to me that crypto/blockchain could provide value eventually as a realtime, open, highly available database about economic a…

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Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're kinda right but it's also kinda right that after a decade+ crypto found like 1.5 useful applications and generative AI is finding some mind blowing product launch or demo something like once every 8 hours.

It's not a race. One technology can show its value more quickly than another, and one technology can ultimately provide more value to society than another. That doesn't mean that the other technology is useless, just that it developed more slowly and/or ended up having a lesser overall impact. I think it's worth putting into perspective though that machine learning kicked off in the 60s, whereas there wasn't any nota…

I think the comparison is useful to folks trying to wrap their head around the hype; it's natural to ask "is this crypto all over again" and the answer is very clearly no.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#104

> “All this crypto stuff, it needed parallel processing, and [Nvidia] is the best, so people just programmed it to use for this purpose. They bought a lot of stuff, and then eventually it collapsed, because it doesn’t bring anything useful for society. AI does,” Kagan told the Guardian. No, the crypto mining industry collapsed because the largest GPU-mined cryptocurrency (Ethereum) removed the ability for people to m…

It's entirely possible for nvidia to be sour and also correct. Crypto currencies have done nothing for society but to introduce scam and money laundering vectors.

There are people that still have their accounts frozen because they donated to the truckers in Canada. That’s insane. Other countries had or will have similar cases in the future. We absolutely should have a way to exchange money without the governments involvement. The government already has the monopoly on physical force. That ought to be enough. So yes, there is a use case. But you’re correct in that it hasn’t really been used that way so far.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#105

I do not own any crypto myself. The grown-up opinion is of course to view all crypto ""investments"" with extreme skepticism, which is an absolutely sane and correct position. With that said, I like the idea of cryptocurrencies simply because they are punk as f*ck, and I'd like whatever leadership in charge to know that they do not have absolute power to run anyone else's life. Apart from magic internet money, I cann…

> I'd like whatever leadership in charge to know that they do not have absolute power to run anyone else's life.

That, and I'd also like everyone to know that money, markets, and everything are a joke. The value of USD is just what people collectively agree on it to be, not some inherent fundamental value. The same is true for TSLA stock, GME stock, ethereum, or the shitcoin-of-the-week.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#106
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His claim... "it collapsed, because it doesn’t bring anything useful for society" ...is incorrect. The total crypto market cap collapsed because of interest rate hikes. Nvidia's stock dropped 68%. Is that because it didn't bring anything useful for society? No. It was trading at a premium because of low rates.

> The total crypto market cap collapsed because of interest rate hikes. It's constantly been peaking and collapsing since 2013, when there were no US interest rate increases. The 2017 peak happened in the middle of a US interest rate increase cycle. The 2021 peak happened 6 months before the most recent US interest rate increase cycle. I'm sure interest rates were varying in other countries on different schedules, bu…

Yeah but institutional investors were just starting to hold much larger positions within the last few years. They are much more sensitive to interest rate hikes than individuals.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#108

Convenient of them to pronounce it now as the world has moved on to AI bandwagon which suits Nvidia just fine. I wonder where was this enlightenment couple of years ago when the demand for GPUs was through the roof.

I eagerly anticipate the day CUDA no longer has a stranglehold on ML libraries; it's just absurd that one must purchase Magical Hardware when damn near every laptop has a GPU in it just not the GPU

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#109
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

His claim... "it collapsed, because it doesn’t bring anything useful for society" ...is incorrect. The total crypto market cap collapsed because of interest rate hikes. Nvidia's stock dropped 68%. Is that because it didn't bring anything useful for society? No. It was trading at a premium because of low rates.

> The total crypto market cap collapsed because of interest rate hikes. Let's take a deeper cut, why does something collapse when interest rates rise?

Because capital is necessary for growth and the more expensive capital becomes the less growth is anticipated.

Re: Cryptocurrencies add nothing useful to society, says chip-maker Nvidia

#110
post #99

I do not own any crypto myself. The grown-up opinion is of course to view all crypto ""investments"" with extreme skepticism, which is an absolutely sane and correct position. With that said, I like the idea of cryptocurrencies simply because they are punk as f*ck, and I'd like whatever leadership in charge to know that they do not have absolute power to run anyone else's life. Apart from magic internet money, I cann…

Why not divert that interest into the world of secure private and/or anonymous chat and networking protocols? The flow of information and ideas is more valuable than currency, and there is increasing pressure to legislate it out of existence.

The overlap between the two is significant.
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