Unfortunately there are lots of good books that are appropriate for kids being banned along with books that are definitely not appropriate for kids. I remember seeing Maus being banned which I consider to be appropriate for kids
Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
61–70 of 72 posts
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
What’s your limiting principle here? Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? They’re less sexually explicit than drawings of two underage kids blowing each other. Are the straight kids not horny? Should there also be straight porn in schools? You can’t just drop sexually explicit images in a book then cry afoul when parents and taxpayers don’t want it in their public schools. They didn’t allow hustler and pl…
> Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with such a blatently dishonest comparison?
Yeah nice try, buddy.
If I post the blowjob scene from Gender Queer here u/dang is going to ban my account, but you’re free to google it and say whether or not it’s more explicit than a woman baring her breast.
While we’re at it, how un-feminist and objectifying to imply that a woman’s body should be overly sexualized. Isn’t treating men’s and women’s nipples differently how we train kids to objectify women? If anything we need more Playboy in schools to destigmatize a women’s bare body. #FreeTheNipple
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Should schools also carry old Playboy magazines? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously with such a blatently dishonest comparison?
Yeah nice try, buddy. If I post the blowjob scene from Gender Queer here u/dang is going to ban my account, but you’re free to google it and say whether or not it’s more explicit than a woman baring her breast. While we’re at it, how un-feminist and objectifying to imply that a woman’s body should be overly sexualized. Isn’t treating men’s and women’s nipples differently how we train kids to objectify women? If anyth…
Yes, a blowjob is more explicit than a bare breast. This is not relevant to the topic currently being discussed, which is about how dishonest it is to compare a depiction of a sex act in a memoir about coming to terms with one's own identity and sexuality with pornography.
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#64The idea that "A kid at school should not be aware of anything their parents don't want them to be aware of" is mind numbingly stupid. How many gay kids have grown up under homophobic parents? How many little girls are told to be subservient to men and know their place? How many kids live in a household that consistently talks about "those thugs" and other clear racism? These kids all exist and it is stupid to think…
> Just because a parent THINKS "being gay" is sexually suggestive doesn't mean that it IS. But categorically, actually being gay is . By any dictionary, the word “gay”classifies a very specific sexual preference. Sexual preferences are fundamentally sexual in nature, and parents absolutely have the prerogative to gatekeep the kinds of content their children are exposed to, especially sexual content. I realize you mig…
Is a book containing a husband and wife sexually suggestive, as it shows a heterosexual couple? Is a book containing a nuclear family even more sexually suggestive, since it implies the husband and wife must have had sexual intercourse to produce the child?
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#65Does anyone have the list of books and examples?
According to the interwebs, here are some examples and the reason people want them banned from grade schools: Gender Queer - has images of kids performing oral sex https://theiowastandard.com/shocking-images-from-book-gender... All Boys Aren't Blue - includes sex scenes - https://youtu.be/ag-ByyDXhUQ Lawn Boy - includes sex scenes https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/video-sucked-eachot... This Book Is Gay - a bo…
Thank you for posting the content of the actual books. It’s kind of funny to me that people upthread are upset about the ‘blowjob’ scene when the characters involved immediately decide it’s not very exciting after all. Not exactly the hedonistic lgbt recruitment pamphlet they were trying to conjure in the imagination. Maybe telling kids that realistically sex is just a bit weird and gross and boring is more effective than banning it, who knows!
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#66Earlier quoted context omitted.
I didn't ask about sexually explicit material though - "explicit" and "suggestive" are quite different. My expectation is that most kids (below the age of 12 or so) wouldn't even recognise a lot of sexually suggestive language for what it was anyway.
They're banning sexually explicit books aren't they, so I'm talking about that.
The only book I saw mentioned
that may be considered sexually explicit was one about a boy suffering rape and incest. I'd accept it's probably not appropriate for a school library to have a book like that freely available to students of all ages. But I don't get the impression that's a representative sample.
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#67Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah nice try, buddy. If I post the blowjob scene from Gender Queer here u/dang is going to ban my account, but you’re free to google it and say whether or not it’s more explicit than a woman baring her breast. While we’re at it, how un-feminist and objectifying to imply that a woman’s body should be overly sexualized. Isn’t treating men’s and women’s nipples differently how we train kids to objectify women? If anyth…
Yes, a blowjob is more explicit than a bare breast. This is not relevant to the topic currently being discussed, which is about how dishonest it is to compare a depiction of a sex act in a memoir about coming to terms with one's own identity and sexuality with pornography.
You’re hiding behind it being a memoir as if that’s a meaningful distinction or somehow the interest in discovering identity outweighs the harm in having sexually explicit material in schools.
If Riley Reid put out a graphic memoir about tearing down taboos in sex and confronting “slut shaming” you wouldn’t advocate for it to be in schools.
If you’re trying to claim I’m making some sort of false analogy or moral equivalency then you should try to answer my original question: what is the limiting principle? Because if it’s as weak as “it’s a memoir that’s about discovering identity” it’s not only a weak argument that few would agree with but it opens the door to a lot of other stuff that you’re already trying to rule out.
What if Playboy helps some boys discover their straight identity? Is that not worth discovering? Some young girls might find Playboy helpful in discovering their lesbian identity. Wrap a story around it and it’s apparently good to go for schools.
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, a blowjob is more explicit than a bare breast. This is not relevant to the topic currently being discussed, which is about how dishonest it is to compare a depiction of a sex act in a memoir about coming to terms with one's own identity and sexuality with pornography.
You’re hiding behind it being a memoir as if that’s a meaningful distinction or somehow the interest in discovering identity outweighs the harm in having sexually explicit material in schools. If Riley Reid put out a graphic memoir about tearing down taboos in sex and confronting “slut shaming” you wouldn’t advocate for it to be in schools. If you’re trying to claim I’m making some sort of false analogy or moral equi…
My "limiting principle" is "not being porn." I'm not going to try to fully define porn, otherwise I'd be here all day, but I think one obvious requirement is that it is designed primarily to cause sexual arousal. Based on the excerpts from Gender Queer that I've seen posted to support its ban, this is a test that it plainly fails.
It is unclear what harm you believe Gender Queer might cause to teenagers.
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
You’re hiding behind it being a memoir as if that’s a meaningful distinction or somehow the interest in discovering identity outweighs the harm in having sexually explicit material in schools. If Riley Reid put out a graphic memoir about tearing down taboos in sex and confronting “slut shaming” you wouldn’t advocate for it to be in schools. If you’re trying to claim I’m making some sort of false analogy or moral equi…
My "limiting principle" is "not being porn." I'm not going to try to fully define porn, otherwise I'd be here all day, but I think one obvious requirement is that it is designed primarily to cause sexual arousal. Based on the excerpts from Gender Queer that I've seen posted to support its ban, this is a test that it plainly fails. It is unclear what harm you believe Gender Queer might cause to teenagers.
In the words of Sandra Day O'Connor "I know it when I see it."
The problem you've highlighted with defining what porn is is not a new debate and as you've admitted we'd be here all day - and likely still not agree on a definition. The problem with your definition is that what people find arousing is a pretty wide spectrum and would include things that are not traditionally regarded as porn.
Going back to our thought experiment, at what point would my theoretical graphic memoir of Riley Reid no longer be porn? What would the words to picture ratio have to be? You can make this same argument about Gender Queer; does the inclusion of the illustrations add any significant value to a memoir about someone discovering their identity?
As far as whats appropriate for minors in a public school setting, society decided a while ago that once sexually explicit material is included, there is no countervailing interest. This is a pretty black and white standard that until recently all parties found agreeable. If you are advocating for changing that standard, you'll have to defend why children/teens/minors have more of an interest in seeing illustrations of a minor boy performing oral sex on another minor boy than seeing an adult woman in the nude. Claiming it not being porn can be argued both ways for both.
Re: Book ban attempts reach “unparalleled” 20-year high in 2022
#70Earlier quoted context omitted.
According to the interwebs, here are some examples and the reason people want them banned from grade schools: Gender Queer - has images of kids performing oral sex https://theiowastandard.com/shocking-images-from-book-gender... All Boys Aren't Blue - includes sex scenes - https://youtu.be/ag-ByyDXhUQ Lawn Boy - includes sex scenes https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/video-sucked-eachot... This Book Is Gay - a bo…
Thank you for posting the content of the actual books. It’s kind of funny to me that people upthread are upset about the ‘blowjob’ scene when the characters involved immediately decide it’s not very exciting after all. Not exactly the hedonistic lgbt recruitment pamphlet they were trying to conjure in the imagination. Maybe telling kids that realistically sex is just a bit weird and gross and boring is more effective…
I think people are concerned that that content is not appropriate for grade school children. I think they would raise the same objections if it wasn't about a same sex couple.