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OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

reuters.com

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Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#211

Post by i_have_an_idea »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #191
o8o8o8o wrote: post #167

The rumour I keep hearing is that it's like the Hunger Games inside Google at the moment. Total chaos and infighting at all levels, investors are freaking out over AI and Bard's middling performance compared to OpenAI and blood is in the water. Sundar may be forced to resign and Larry/Sergei deployed to rescue the company.

+1 except for Larry/Sergei ever returning, I think that ship sailed about 10 years ago

Yeah, I don't particularly see the value of having the founders back - they haven't been hands on for a real long time.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#212

Post by jocaal »

epistasis wrote: post #194
rcme wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal opinion is that this has nothing to do with SEO. All those developer-focused blogs serve Google ads, while the official Go documentation does not. Google is trying to boost revenue by promoting results with ads.

This is exactly it. Google is trying to get people to stay on the pages they click, and they optimize for this behavior, not for utility or for quickly accessing information. If you go to a page and immediately find what you are looking for, Google interprets that as failure. This is why Bing and AI based search can completely beat Google web search, because they are trying to serve the searcher rather than serve ads…

The problem AI search has is monetization, openAI can't run gpu server farms to serve 100M customers for free forever. This was a problem that plagued early google as well, sergey and larry were against using ads for monetization, but in the end that i what drove the business to profitability

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#213

Post by ants_everywhere »

eindiran wrote: post #67
tines wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just performed that search in Google and the top two results are links to PyPI and Snyk packages for micropython-html.parser. The third result is a link to python.org documentation for html.parser (not micropython). Bing returns the result for PyPI and the one for the non-micropython python.org result. I don't see a big difference here (except maybe me learning about Snyk through google and not Bing?).

I mean, this is a big part of the issue. Of course the issue isn't reproducible; Google is trying to do the search based on their model of what you want back. Sometimes you benefit from that, other times it pushes the results you want way down. I just tested this and there were some micropython related results in the top ten, but the majority were for beautiful soup with no mention of micropython.

> Of course the issue isn't reproducible; Google is trying to do the search based on their model of what you want back.

There could also be other things that make it non-reproducible as well.

It sometimes feels like search just returns whatever it has on hand that seems somewhat similar to your search. It may then do an asynchronous request to pull into cache results from a deeper backend search, but by the time the frontend gets them you've already been served your results. Subsequent searches from other people for the same terms would then get better results than you did, so this sort of optimization would on average improve search quality even if quality is poor for the first searcher.

I have no idea if search engines actually do this. But it seems to explain some of their more mysterious behavior, like immediately returning a bunch of results that have nothing to do with your search terms.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#214

Post by Sai_ »

epistasis wrote: post #194
rcme wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My personal opinion is that this has nothing to do with SEO. All those developer-focused blogs serve Google ads, while the official Go documentation does not. Google is trying to boost revenue by promoting results with ads.

This is exactly it. Google is trying to get people to stay on the pages they click, and they optimize for this behavior, not for utility or for quickly accessing information. If you go to a page and immediately find what you are looking for, Google interprets that as failure. This is why Bing and AI based search can completely beat Google web search, because they are trying to serve the searcher rather than serve ads…

…for now.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#215

Post by spaceman_2020 »

culopatin wrote: post #26

I feel like I’m missing out on something but other than to summarize text or fill pointless and lazy homework assignments I don’t have much of a use of gpt search. I think I have a trust issue with it and I rather get the raw result and process it myself than to believe that what this model “understood” is right. Anyone else feels this way?

Do you have Plus? chatGPT was annoying when I was using the free version - I would have to keep logging in again and again and the service was unreliable.

Ever since I switched the Plus, it's (usually) always on and doesn't log me out.

Makes it much easier to use as a general search engine

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#217

Post by in3d »

o8o8o8o wrote: post #167

The rumour I keep hearing is that it's like the Hunger Games inside Google at the moment. Total chaos and infighting at all levels, investors are freaking out over AI and Bard's middling performance compared to OpenAI and blood is in the water. Sundar may be forced to resign and Larry/Sergei deployed to rescue the company.

Sundar should be fired. Google has blown its lead in AI research by being too hesitant to release products, while search quality has continued to decline. Bard is poor compared to ChatGPT 3.5, let alone GPT-4.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#218

Post by nosianu »

whatshisface wrote: post #140
ThePhysicist wrote: post #89

This might be a trope here, but recently I noticed that the quality of search results has degraded quite a bit for me. When I e.g. search for Golang-related content (often I want just the official docs of a module like net/http) I get all these developer-focused, SEO-optimized blogs that are kind of helpful but often not, and I have to scroll all the way down to get the official docs. I really wonder if that has to d…

I guess the problem is that Google doesn't have a metric for "clicked, wasted ten minutes, and was annoyed."

I think you could actually get them to accept a new strategy with open arms, where everybody needs to have some Google watcher process installed that checks and reports back what you do with the search results (I don't think unless the target website imports Google JS scripts too it can't track any more?) and more specifically, your body reaction to see how you feel. "It's necessary for better search results!"

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#219

Post by culopatin »

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #215
culopatin wrote: post #26

I feel like I’m missing out on something but other than to summarize text or fill pointless and lazy homework assignments I don’t have much of a use of gpt search. I think I have a trust issue with it and I rather get the raw result and process it myself than to believe that what this model “understood” is right. Anyone else feels this way?

Do you have Plus? chatGPT was annoying when I was using the free version - I would have to keep logging in again and again and the service was unreliable. Ever since I switched the Plus, it's (usually) always on and doesn't log me out. Makes it much easier to use as a general search engine

I don’t spend that much time in it to even consider that, and so little time that signing in again is not a problem for me. I guess I don’t know what to ask of it.

Re: OpenAI tech gives Microsoft's Bing a boost in search battle with Google

#220

Post by faeriechangling »

gambiting wrote: post #28

Maybe because Google is actual trash and it went from being the best search engine to being an SEO-infested desert of a search, where your query is interpreted however they want not how you want. Latest example from today - search for "micropython html parser" - 100% of results are about normal python not micropython, with the first 4 results being for generic paid programming courses. It's completely useless as a se…

I don't find Bing's search any better than Google, but importantly, I don't find it any worse.

GPT4 is going to do what Hawaii five-o, Bing Rewards, integrating windows search with Bing, and setting Bing as the default search engine for Edge on Windows never could. Make people use Bing over Google.

I've already set it as my default search engine across my devices as I move to cut Google out of my life entirely. I simply don't feel the need to use any of their services anymore. Their moat is gone.

The only downside I have noticed is that Bing Maps is a pretty bad service relative to Google Maps or Apple Maps and I will go out of my way to avoid using Bing Maps. Good mapping being integrated into a search engine is actually a pretty big deal since it's nice to use a search engine as a front-end for a mapping service, so this is a significant weakness.

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