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Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

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Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#221

Post by robertlagrant »

tfourb wrote: post #190
robertlagrant wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (and it is mostly luck, don't kid yourself) This is a big misconception. It's mostly not luck. Different societies can and do focus on different things. The US focuses a lot more on innovation and progress, and invents and pioneers a lot of the things that other societies, who spend their money on other things, then get to benefit from. Sadly, some of the occupants of the latter also taking a moral stand against th…

According to wikipedia, 9 of the 10 richest persons are white men from an upper-middle-class or upper class social background. Even people like Sergey Brin, Mukesh Ambani and Carlos Slim, while not born in the U.S. or Western Europe, have parents that were part of their countries' academic or business elite. Do you have any conception of how lucky you have to be to be born into such circumstances instead of being rai…

I didn't say that hard work is all that matters.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#222

Post by ExoticPearTree »

still_grokking wrote: post #152
oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

> Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision. I see the same. If there would be an "IT people"'s union it would be likely one of the most powerful organizations on this planet—as verbatim nothing in business works without computers these days (which need to be constantly operated and maintained by some). But even mentioning the idea of such an union will give…

In the US I had to work with unionised workers and they would come in at 7am, do whatever they did and at 4pm they would drop everything and would not care if you needed them to work overtime to finish a project on time. Obviously paid overtime, in case anyone wonders.

In other cases I worked with non-unionised workers and they worked more and they were actually cheaper by the hour.

Tell me, how are unions good for business?

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#223

Post by qwytw »

BowBun wrote: post #214
qwytw wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unions are the best way known to man that allows the re-distribution of profits from a small upper class Wealth inequality is still huge in Scandinavia (especially Sweden which is even worse than the US in that regard), Germany and the Benelux (especially when compared to many other European countries which might not have very strong unions..). So unions didn't really help that much with that...

Data from the World Inequality Database refutes your statement - https://wid.world/world Every single socialist European nation (including the Scandinavian ones) has a better wealth distribution than the USA. > So unions didn't really help that much with that... Can you back your statement up with facts instead of hand-waving away paragraphs of meaningful discussion that came before this comment?

> refutes your statement

Credit Suisse says otherwise when measured using Gini:

https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/ab...

Of course they are possible not the most trustworthy source given the recent events..

To be fair I don't know how to explain the disparity, the report even says this: "For all other countries, except the United States, the wealth shares of the top groups are expected to be understated"

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#224

Post by th13row »

ktosobcy wrote: post #165
th13row wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unelected bureaucrats who think they are above the citizens, too much reach, too much influence, insistence in regulating every industry and every activity. This can only end in a can a cashless mass-surveillance social credit system dystopia even worse than China. Give it a few years.

Give me a break. Parlimant is elected directly, commission is made of PMs of the member states government, that were also elected. If feels like hearing Brits touting those 'unelected bureaucrats' while at the same time having unelected PM and house of Lords... no voting system is perfect nor the EU is perfect but this is one of the dumbest arguments there. As for policies - they are quite often very pro-citizen and…

I'm not from the UK, I'm from South America. It doesn't matter though, both the UK and the EU will crumble apart so fast that I'm already expecting the hordes of expats trying to find refuge here.

Which is funny, because SA lives in a perpetual economic and social crisis, but even still, even a poor and somewhat corrupted country like Bolivia or Paraguay is a better prospect than living in a dystopian communist hellhole.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#225

Post by tfourb »

robertlagrant wrote: post #221
tfourb wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to wikipedia, 9 of the 10 richest persons are white men from an upper-middle-class or upper class social background. Even people like Sergey Brin, Mukesh Ambani and Carlos Slim, while not born in the U.S. or Western Europe, have parents that were part of their countries' academic or business elite. Do you have any conception of how lucky you have to be to be born into such circumstances instead of being rai…

I didn't say that hard work is all that matters.

You said it is "mostly not luck". I said and believe I did at least prove to a first approximation that it is indeed mostly luck. Yes, hard work matters at the margin. Among the people I studied with, those with a good work ethic are mostly in a better place today than those who slacked during college. But we were all able to attend college in the first place because we were very lucky, not because of any particular great achievements on our part. And in terms of standard of living and luxury, we are more or less all in the top 5% globally, I estimate.

Meanwhile I have worked and travelled across quite a few African countries and I can positively confirm that almost everyone I met there has worked quite a bit harder than I have throughout their lives and despite that, practically all are financially worse off than I am today.

I don't loose sleep over that, there is no cosmic balance I am upsetting with my privileged existence. But the least I and everyone else profiting from this privilege can do is to acknowledge it and stand in solidarity with efforts to redistribute some of that extreme profits that the most lucky people in our societies reap through no real sacrifice of their own.

Rich people should simply accept that they are rich mostly not because of their genius and/or hard work, but because of the privileges afforded to them by birth and chance, as well as the services provided to them by greater society. Consequently, I am all for enjoying the fruits of your labour but all this talk about systems like the U.S. "rewarding innovation" or "risk taking" etc. is simply propaganda by people who would rather see other people literally starve than lower their bank account balance from 10 to 8 figures.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#226

Post by solarkraft »

namaria wrote: post #164
solarkraft wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Employees being termed "dependents" of the company is a big tell on Italy's work culture In german there's a funny situation as well: The employer is called the "work provider", while the employee is the "work receiver". Thank you, company, for providing me with work.

>In german there's a funny situation as well: The employer is called the "work provider", while the employee is the "work receiver" Hm in Dutch I'd translate werknemer as 'work taker'... is it very different from that in German?

Literally it's actually "work giver" and "work taker", I just found it less idiomatic in english (it doesn't quite transport the connotation of providing the work being something noble).

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#227

Post by lambertsimnel »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #187
piva00 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"When education isn't liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor" fits really well with your comment. If unions keep innovation from happening how can Sweden be considered one of the most innovative countries on Earth? Or how can Germany be a powerhouse of engineering and building the machines that build machines? Your take is a regurgitation of the usual talking points that the elite class use…

I would argue workers create indirect value, because what they do in the end is to execute the vision of the founder of the company. They would have created actual value for themselves if they would have had the vision and the grit to start a company. What was invented in Sweden that is so groundbreaking they're the most innovative country on the planet? Regarding technology, it happened in a country unencumbered by…

> What was invented in Sweden that is so groundbreaking they're the most innovative country on the planet?

Although I don't know which country is the most innovative on the planet, I think it should be noted that Sweden has a fairly small population (smaller than some cities), so we should probably consider whether Sweden's inventions are in proportion with its population.

I think of Sweden as the home of Volvo, Saab, Skype, Sictus Prolog, Spotify, Minecraft, seatbelts, dynamite and Angstrom's spectroscopy. Don't the Swedes punch above their weight?

Edit: Lots of medical inventions, too: pacemakers, local anesthetics, ECGs, ultrasounds and ventilators. And more computer technology: graphics cards and Bluetooth.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#228

Post by bigbillheck »

robertlagrant wrote: post #163
gnz11 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This ignores all of the decades of government and university research and funding that went into these technological advances. The US also had the great advantage of being one of the only countries to not be completely devastated by two World Wars.

Almost all countries were not devastated by two world wars.

Most of the ones that weren't were previously devastated by colonialism.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#229

Post by ktosobcy »

qwytw wrote: post #177
ktosobcy wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. Parlimant is elected directly, commission is made of PMs of the member states government, that were also elected. If feels like hearing Brits touting those 'unelected bureaucrats' while at the same time having unelected PM and house of Lords... no voting system is perfect nor the EU is perfect but this is one of the dumbest arguments there. As for policies - they are quite often very pro-citizen and…

I definitely agree that in balance the EU has been greatly beneficial but let's not get overoptimistic... > Parliament is elected directly The institution is a joke with no real power compared to national parliaments. They don't get to appoint the government, can't propose legislation etc. basically they just rubber-stamp anything which is brought by the commission by them. Barely any anywhere takes the EU elections…

> The institution is a joke with no real power compared to national parliaments. They don't get to appoint the government, can't propose legislation etc. basically they just rubber-stamp anything which is brought by the commission by them. Barely any anywhere takes the EU elections seriously.

Agreed. By the push towards more powerful Parliament is greeted with huge opposition from "nation states" because you know... "sovereignty"... :|

> PMs? National governments can appoint anyone they want and often use it as a way to reward their buddies with a very cushy job (with close to zero political accountability) for a few years. Or to get someone influential/popular/etc. but whom the government finds dangerous from the country for a few years.

Yes, that's correct but how else do you want to handle it? Ideally there should be two chamber body, lower one (Parliament) with proportional representation and upper one (Commission) with representation of member states (akin to the US) but that's just yet another election (you have EU one, national one and then regional ones)...

> The process for picking ("electing") a commission president is a bit different but perfectly illustrates my point. They just appointed the most incompetent high ranking politician they could find in Germany...

Yeah... and also corrupted from what I heard. But - case in point, even incompetent and corrupted ones can be elected via direct democracy (Poland, Hungary, Tukey…)?

> Just like the head of government in every single non-presidential country in Europe (Germany, Netherlands, Italy, Sweden, Spain, Austria etc... (the only excpetion is France). Anyway be any objective metric this is more democratic than the EU government.

Not sure if those are more democratic or not. Problem may be that those head of states usually wield less power than Commission.

AFAIR this year was a push to give Parliament more power but was met with butthurt from nation states...

> I agree. But it's an anachronistic and a powerless institution. Basically a retirement program for retired influential politicians...

AFAIR HoL can be quite influential and can block certain laws. And it's not abolished because it's unelecetd, so they can have more scrutiny over certain laws without fearing the election... Either way - it's "wobbly wobbly" and complicated :D

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#230

Post by ktosobcy »

th13row wrote: post #224
ktosobcy wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. Parlimant is elected directly, commission is made of PMs of the member states government, that were also elected. If feels like hearing Brits touting those 'unelected bureaucrats' while at the same time having unelected PM and house of Lords... no voting system is perfect nor the EU is perfect but this is one of the dumbest arguments there. As for policies - they are quite often very pro-citizen and…

I'm not from the UK, I'm from South America. It doesn't matter though, both the UK and the EU will crumble apart so fast that I'm already expecting the hordes of expats trying to find refuge here. Which is funny, because SA lives in a perpetual economic and social crisis, but even still, even a poor and somewhat corrupted country like Bolivia or Paraguay is a better prospect than living in a dystopian communist hellh…

> I'm not from the UK,

Never said you were. Only that you sound like a Brit...

> I'm from South America.

Greetings from Chile, the lovely state of estallido social de 2019 :P

> It doesn't matter though, both the UK and the EU will crumble apart so fast that

Lol, we've been hearing this as well for the past 20-30 years, mostly from the UK press and Leave campaign :D

> I'm already expecting the hordes of expats trying to find refuge here. > > Which is funny, because SA lives in a perpetual economic and social crisis, but even still, even a poor and somewhat corrupted country like Bolivia or Paraguay is a better prospect than living in a dystopian communist hellhole.

Arm, hasn't "the red wave" just swept the LatAm? Chile? Venezuela? Colombia? Brasil?

Besides you seem to have USA-based definition of "communism", which is even funnier :D

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