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Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

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191–200 of 249 posts

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#191
post #154
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we're going to copy the Nordics, someone is going to have to start by translating their laws into English so we know what it is they are actually doing. I don't like arguing based on what they are hypothetically doing and I don't think many of the people pointing at them as an example know either. They're tiny, homogeneous and Norway has obscene oil wealth. It isn't obvious we can copy them piecemeal, even if it d…

Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively d…

> Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively decent and relatively affordable public transport, pensions based on prior earnings that are (somewhat) adjusted for inflation, child benefits, elder/disabled care benefits, etc etc.

Still, if we add all those expenses with the wage, the total is still lower for a SWE in EU vs a SWE in US.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#192
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively d…

We have get healthcare, disability pensions, pensions and care via insurance in Germany. They aren't provided via government budgets. If you earn enough or you are self employed, you can in some case opt out of the public insurances, and get private insurance.

Essentially all of these insurances are subsidized by the government and would not function without taxpayer money. Also because the insurance part is in many cases compulsory, not having these programs run on the government budget is mostly an accounting trick. The effect is essentially the same as leveling a tax it is just called differently.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#193
post #166
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively d…

> Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream So all this justifies German employers paying their workers less? I'm not sure how should this make sense. All of those things you've mentioned are great and are financed through taxation paid by the workers... So just compare pretax…

In the same way that it's OK to pay people in SF more than in Detroit, it's OK to have a lower number in Germany if it comes hand in hand with massively cheaper cost of living.

You need to compare the fully loaded cost, including health insurance and university access. If you add the fees that you had to pay in the US to send 3 kids to world-class universities, German salaries would probably come out as a higher value.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#194
post #83
post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

The lack of worker solidarity in tech is really astounding. I've been in this industry for almost 20 years and have been trying to instill some sense of it in every workplace I worked. Some decades ago it really seemed that tech workers felt like they were just tech moguls that hadn't made it yet, any kind of labour protection was looked at as "stifling innovation". Only lately I've seen people listen to me when I br…

Solidarity and diversity are opposing forces. Now you understand why Tech is so obsessed with diversity. There will never be the solidarity you seek while companies, to the cheers of their employees, atomize their workers as much as possible. But diversity is now a secular religion whose tenets are ever changing to keep everyone divided. Any solidarity that arises in such a religion can quickly be quashed by changing some of the previously unquestionable core beliefs.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#195
post #111
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Narcissism. [polemic rant incoming] They believe they are exceptional and deserve even higher pay than the ones listed, that the leopards-eating-peoples-faces-party won't eat their faces if they vote for it, that they are just temporarily embarrassed billionaires in a bit of a ruffle and golden times are just around the corner, they believe that they are better off if their surroundings are worse off, that the invisi…

I really think you strawman to the extreme with this. I’ve never met one of these people, but on the internet they get made up because they need to exist in order for posters to feel so justified and unarguably right in their political opinions.

How would you describe a polemic rant?

The purpose of a polemic rant as I see it is precisely to take it to the extreme — otherwise it would neither be polemic, nor a rant.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#196
post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live and work in Sweden, even though worker solidarity here is almost at an all-time low it's still quite ingrained in society, it's one of the engines of making this society more trustworthy, less unequal and all the benefits that stems from that. > All Germany's solidarity isn't getting their salaries up to US wages; the money isn't there. Because USA's wages are the massive oddball here, not the standard. And to…

> I live and work in Sweden, even though worker solidarity here is almost at an all-time low it's still quite ingrained in society, it's one of the engines of making this society more trustworthy, less unequal and all the benefits that stems from that. By "worker solidarity" you mean laws enforced by socialist bureaucrats? Equality of outcomes, no matter the merits or the work put in? Is that a sustainable model? Doe…

>By "worker solidarity" you mean laws enforced by socialist bureaucrats?

Socialist movements and ideas, although fair, win votes and elections, especially in tough times like these, even though those ideas aren't financially viable or would backfire in the long run. Because which voter doesn't want bigger wages or bigger pensions, who cares where the money comes form? It's why my Spanish, Greek and Italian friends tell me their countries are sliding downhill economically.

> Is that a sustainable model? Does it allow for economic and technical progresses being made?

It was a sustainable model before the rise of globalization, back in the '50s till the '80s, when it weas the west vs the east, capitalism vs communism, so western labor and governments had leverage over their large corporate entities. Now, in the globalized world, free of trade and capital barriers, not so much.

Tax corporate profits too much to pay for infrastructure, and social services that serve their workforce? The companies will just relocate to Luxembourg, Netherlands, Ireland or other complex tax voidance structure involving some British overseas Territories.

Factory workers want more pay and less hours? They relocate production somewhere else where those aren't an issue.

Corporations have managed to have their cake and eat it too, at the expense of the workers and the environment.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#197
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively d…

> Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively…

In terms of median income (which might arguably be better suited for this particular question than average income), the U.S. is on fourth position with Luxembourg, Switzerland and Norway occupying higher ranks. Germany is only about 3,000 USD behind the U.S. in that measure: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/median-in...

In terms of median wealth, half the E.U. scores better than the U.S.: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_wealth_pe...

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ASML is in the EU, are you going to say they can't do tech? My god, if I had a biscuit crumb for every time someone on HN mentioned ASML as an example of European tech dominance, I would have died from obesity several times over. The simple fact that ASML (and sometimes Spotify) is the only name that comes to mind when discussion EU tech dominance, speaks volumes. (I'm European BTW) Where is EU's iPhone? Or Android?…

> Where is EU's iPhone? Or Android? Or Windows? Or Intel? Or AWS? Or Office365? Or Google? Or ChatGPT? Or Xbox? Or Steam? Or Netflix? Or Nvidia? Or Micron? Or AMD? Some examples of Eu based tech would be: Nokia killed by MS, an US company. Skype. SAP. ARM, UiPath, Bitdefender. But is true, we are unable to compete with US on tech. Part of the reasons is that we don't have good startup ecosystem and hubs, we don't hav…

[deleted]

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ASML is in the EU, are you going to say they can't do tech? My god, if I had a biscuit crumb for every time someone on HN mentioned ASML as an example of European tech dominance, I would have died from obesity several times over. The simple fact that ASML (and sometimes Spotify) is the only name that comes to mind when discussion EU tech dominance, speaks volumes. (I'm European BTW) Where is EU's iPhone? Or Android?…

> Where is EU's iPhone? Or Android? Or Windows? Or Intel? Or AWS? Or Office365? Or Google? Or ChatGPT? Or Xbox? Or Steam? Or Netflix? Or Nvidia? Or Micron? Or AMD? Some examples of Eu based tech would be: Nokia killed by MS, an US company. Skype. SAP. ARM, UiPath, Bitdefender. But is true, we are unable to compete with US on tech. Part of the reasons is that we don't have good startup ecosystem and hubs, we don't hav…

ARM is not EU

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Equality is a socialist fairytale and unions is what keeps innovation from happening. All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this, stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on. As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible with no impediments to this. And yes, be the next tec…

Dear god what an indictement of your school system this comment is. >All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this No, what they want is for all workers _of the same job_ to earn a fair wage, at the very least. Not a single time has a union prevented people from having a higher wage than their colleagues. >stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed a…

> No, what they want is for all workers _of the same job_ to earn a fair wage, at the very least. Not a single time has a union prevented people from having a higher wage than their colleagues.

And who decides what is a fair wage? And even considering this is what they want, then why should then the ranges be public and tight for a specific job? There are a lot of people here saying it is not in the spirit of the law to say a position pays between 100k and 900k.

> Are a human being with a life, feelings and a family or a fucking object to be tossed away when you're drained dry ? Once again, unions don't prevent companies from firing people. They ask that it be done properly and respectfully. In most of the world, you get indemnities for being fired.

You are basically a cog in a machine. Yes, its callous, but it is what it is. This is why you have unemployment benefits in care you're fired. And do you mean fired properly and respectfully? A red carpet when you leave the premises?

> So you can reach the glass ceiling because you're just yet another drone to your higher ups, that will do everything in their power to keep you as just that, a salaried man while they reap the fruits of _your_ labor ?

This is laughable, it's the kind of socialist speech that has no basis in reality. This is why you are paid in the first place, to do some work that someone else designed for you. If you want to reap the fruits of your labor, start a company and sell your product(s).

> You won't be. You won't be because you're not part of them already. You won't get into YC because you're not a part of the cool kids club. You won't be because they make damn sure of it. And sure, you can make a bit of money. But you'll still be a prole to them, and to the world. But now you get to spit on those poorer than you, and think you're in any way superior to them while they laugh.

I don't know if you know, but there are a lot of stories about people quitting their jobs to start successful companies. And some of them joined YC and so on. Just because most people don't do it its because they prefer the perceived confort of a job to the stress of being an entrepreneur.

> "Hard work gets rewarded" is the poisonous thought put into place by men who haven't worked a day in their lives. Your trash collector works harder than you ever will, and it's not unions holding him back.

I worked hard and got rewarded. And it works. Regading your comment: It is simply the perceived value of the physical work that is put in. That's why you have a lot of low paying jobs: their perceived value to other people.

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