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Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

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Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#151

Post by ohgodplsno »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #136
piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

Equality is a socialist fairytale and unions is what keeps innovation from happening. All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this, stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on. As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible with no impediments to this. And yes, be the next tec…

Dear god what an indictement of your school system this comment is.

>All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this

No, what they want is for all workers _of the same job_ to earn a fair wage, at the very least. Not a single time has a union prevented people from having a higher wage than their colleagues.

>stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on.

Are a human being with a life, feelings and a family or a fucking object to be tossed away when you're drained dry ? Once again, unions don't prevent companies from firing people. They ask that it be done properly and respectfully. In most of the world, you get indemnities for being fired.

>As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible

So you can reach the glass ceiling because you're just yet another drone to your higher ups, that will do everything in their power to keep you as just that, a salaried man while they reap the fruits of _your_ labor ?

>And yes, be the next tech mogul that can build great things.

You won't be. You won't be because you're not part of them already. You won't get into YC because you're not a part of the cool kids club. You won't be because they make damn sure of it. And sure, you can make a bit of money. But you'll still be a prole to them, and to the world. But now you get to spit on those poorer than you, and think you're in any way superior to them while they laugh.

>Equality is a socialist fairytale

"Hard work gets rewarded" is the poisonous thought put into place by men who haven't worked a day in their lives. Your trash collector works harder than you ever will, and it's not unions holding him back.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#152

Post by still_grokking »

oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

> Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

I see the same.

If there would be an "IT people"'s union it would be likely one of the most powerful organizations on this planet—as verbatim nothing in business works without computers these days (which need to be constantly operated and maintained by some).

But even mentioning the idea of such an union will give you instant backlash, up to pure hatred. Even in the EU where unions in general are seen as mostly positive by the majority of people. (But for some reasons not the IT crowd).

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#153

Post by hoffs »

adrianN wrote: post #85
elric wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it. It'll be apples and oranges. Can't even compare salaries between companies in many countries because a salary isn't expressed as a single amount. It's a combination of some gross periodic amount, a random collection of benefits which differs from employer to employer, and even "the same" benefits can have radically different values (e.g. health insurance from provider A instead of provider B). There's no…

"Health insurance" is not a benefit in any EU country that I know of. Are there any EU countries where health insurance is as messed up as in the US?

Private health insurance absolutely is

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#154

Post by tfourb »

roenxi wrote: post #131
piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

If we're going to copy the Nordics, someone is going to have to start by translating their laws into English so we know what it is they are actually doing. I don't like arguing based on what they are hypothetically doing and I don't think many of the people pointing at them as an example know either. They're tiny, homogeneous and Norway has obscene oil wealth. It isn't obvious we can copy them piecemeal, even if it d…

Salaries in Germany (and other European countries) are lower than in the US because German citizens receive a lot of benefits through government budgets that US citizens can only dream of. healthcare, essentially free higher education on a level easily comparable to most U.S. universities, better quality primary and secondary education, free or low cost (depending on the state) childcare from age 2-3, comparatively decent and relatively affordable public transport, pensions based on prior earnings that are (somewhat) adjusted for inflation, child benefits, elder/disabled care benefits, etc etc.

While certainly not perfect and lacking in many ways, it is a system that is at least in theory aimed towards providing a decent standard of living to all, instead of allowing a lucky few (and it is mostly luck, don't kid yourself) to juice the income statistics by earning insane amounts of money and giving the middle finger to the rest of society.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#155

Post by vladvasiliu »

Reventlov wrote: post #135
blakblakarak wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France you get 'top up' insurance called a mutuelle (the state pays the first 70% - 80% of most healthcare costs - chronic conditions are paied 100% by the state). A basic mutuelle is obligatory at all jobs, but many will provide a decent one (that includes glasses, advanced dental work, hearing aids etc) as a benefit.

Basic mutuelle is not mandatory e.g. in the public sector in France.

It's mandatory in the private sector:

https://www.economie.gouv.fr/entreprises/mutuelle-entreprise...

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#156

Post by class3shock »

DagsEoress wrote: post #123
froh wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination. possibly the pay gap has other reasons in many companies, yes. and yes it's real.

Sorry, no it's not. Wage gap is a political tool, nothing else.

https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2023/03/01/the-end...

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#157

Post by caporaltito »

potatototoo99 wrote: post #141
adrianN wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Health insurance" is not a benefit in any EU country that I know of. Are there any EU countries where health insurance is as messed up as in the US?

Even with socialized healthcare everyone prefers private if they can afford it.

Not really. I lived in three different european countries (France, Germany and Poland) and the switch to private was never worth the price : way more expensive for a barely better service. With public healthcare, you have the power of the numbers. Way more people are on the public side, which drives the prices down. If people are not willing to pay an astronomical price for their health, then health companies follow as long as they make decent profit.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#159

Post by tfourb »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #136
piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

Equality is a socialist fairytale and unions is what keeps innovation from happening. All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this, stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on. As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible with no impediments to this. And yes, be the next tec…

Unions are the best way known to man that allows the re-distribution of profits from a small upper class (largely anointed by luck and/or heritage) to a broad segment of society. This in turn enables broad segments of society to give their children a decent education, which is the pre-requisite for society-scale innovation and (technological and social) progress.

The U.S. has long profited from being able to leverage plentiful natural resources and a dominating international position into being attractive to well-educated people from around the world and thus never having to fully rely on its own broadly abysmal but narrowly elite education system and other social services.

That is probably something you see as a victory, but it is also the definition of unsustainability: at some point the stresses introduced by this approach will start to crack the social fabric. Arguably, it already has.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#160

Post by gnz11 »

ExoticPearTree wrote: post #136
piva00 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And I've seen what solidarity (without the scary quotes) did to Sweden (and other Nordics), Germany, etc. as societies for the working class. A union is not a guild, it's not about creating barriers of entry like in law or medicine, unsure why you conflate those concepts. Perhaps it's from ignorance, or perhaps from the fears that the ruling class instilled into you.

Equality is a socialist fairytale and unions is what keeps innovation from happening. All they want is for all workers to earn the same wage because equality and other BS like this, stifle the company from firing people when they're not needed anymore and so on. As an employee you need to be able to earn as much as possible and climb the ladder as high as possible with no impediments to this. And yes, be the next tec…

This ignores all of the decades of government and university research and funding that went into these technological advances. The US also had the great advantage of being one of the only countries to not be completely devastated by two World Wars.
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