Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

businesspost.ie

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 249 posts

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#71

Post by bleep_bloop »

yosito wrote: post #62
motohagiography wrote: post #14

The two reasons I disagree with publishing salaries and "ranges" are that a) the implicit collusion creates mean reversion that disadvantages talent, who can afford to leave and go where they are valued and b) the values behind it presume that a job is something paternalistic granted by a manager in return for supplication, and not due consideration for value offered. Together these create a race to the bottom in off…

> Together these create a race to the bottom How does that work? Say 10 companies are competing for the best talent. All of them offer the public going rate, except 1 which offers 10% more. Guess where the talent is going? To the one that offers 10% more, and now the other 9 companies are incentivized to pay more if they want to attract top talent. I don't understand how secretive salaries benefit anyone other than p…

> I don't understand how secretive salaries benefit anyone other than parties trying to get away with paying lower.

Because they don't. This Bill will be a major win for all employees and will force employers to increase benefits whether financial or otherwise. The day this Bill is enacted and companies publish ranges, you as an existing employee will know where you sit on that range and whether you're undervalued. This Bill will be the single biggest revolution in workers welfare and living standards since legally required paid holiday or maternity leave. It's about time.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#72

Post by froh »

toldyouso2022 wrote: post #64

The whole women perspective is ridicolous. I subscribe to the pov that there is no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination. But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty. This law may create a better culture. I hope so.

> no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination.

possibly the pay gap has other reasons in many companies, yes. and yes it's real.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#73

Post by zwarag »

oblio wrote: post #59

It's incredible how many people here are against transparency and a better labor market providing more information to the supplier side. Lord knows companies have probably 80% of the leverage in the job market. Tech people are doomed not by AIs, but by lack of solidarity, raw greed and lack of long term vision.

Also, many people refuse to grant someone else the same salary, as it is seen as a matter of social status.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#74

Post by progfix »

Mandatum wrote: post #29

Every salary range I've ever seen has been negotiable unless it's for government or tertiary roles. I don't understand how this helps except for quickly assessing who the top players are in the market, which you'll already know.

In Austria companies are already mandated to post salaries for job descriptions. Some companies are very vague about it (here is the mininum, based on your experience you can negotiate,...), some are very clear about it. For me it helped filtering out companies and saved me a lot of time.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#75

Post by happymellon »

compmanager1234 wrote: post #70

Having worked at just-below-FAANG companies with a surely above average oversight on how compensation strategy works, let me summarize my experience: We, as a company already know how much our competitors pay for a given role as everyone in the industry is buying and selling statistical data on their compensation structure through 3rd party agencies. Therefore, we can and do intentionally target, which salary band ou…

I've had folks hard quit at previous companies as soon as they find out how big a difference between their pay and new hires. We are talking about £20k+.

This would be extremely useful during annual reviews and other events during your tenure at an organisation not just at hiring time.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#76

Post by namaria »

toldyouso2022 wrote: post #64

The whole women perspective is ridicolous. I subscribe to the pov that there is no pay gap between sexes sprouting from hateful discrimination. But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty. This law may create a better culture. I hope so.

> But this will be great for Italy because a huge problem of our labor market is that salary is considered something dirty

Truly. Employees being termed "dependents" of the company is a big tell on Italy's work culture. I can also vouch for the toxicity of the Brazilian labor market. Every middling manager carries on like a petty feudal lord...

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#77

Post by Simon_O_Rourke »

There's lot of poorly paying (and very mediocre) companies who must be a tad worried about that development. I've been very under-compensated by a few employers, but had to put up with all sorts of smoke and mirrors in their review meetings about them "matching market rates" for compensation.

This will cut through that nonsense, and get their compensation "spin" to fact some proveable hard facts.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#79

Post by lucumo »

nequo wrote: post #37
lucumo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely the same situation, but when companies have full salary transparency (i.e. the salaries of all are known to all), then there will be fewer outliers. So, there are fewer "underpaid" people, but also fewer "overpaid" people. I put those terms in scare-quotes because it's unknown whether or not those differences were deserved or not. I did have a source for that, but it was in a podcast and I can't remember…

> I did have a source for that, but it was in a podcast and I can't remember which. Was it maybe on the What is Wrong with Hiring podcast?[1] > At least in an opaque world, there's skills you can learn to become an outlier. With transparency the average could hinder your salary growth even more than it already does. We can also reasonably expect an opposite effect. Salary secrecy could push down the pay of even high-…

> Was it maybe on the What is Wrong with Hiring podcast?

No, I haven't heard of that one before now. I looked again, but can't find the one I listened to.

Side note: pay transparency is an economy podcaster's wet dream. There are soooo many podcasts about it.

> If you don't know how little you earn, you are less likely to be dissatisfied with your current job and pay the search cost.

The thing is: that is something you can influence. It's not a popular opinion, but employees do have some amount of agency when it comes to compensation.

You can learn about salaries of others, even when it's not fully public.

You can study negotiation.

You can hop jobs every few years to get a raise.

None of that is a job skill (though being high-agency is...), but they are things you can do to get more than average.

Just getting the average OTOH, does not give you any agency in your salary. It's just been decided by circumstances outside your control. (1) And it gives an employer the greatest excuse ever to not go higher: "this is what everybody else is making."

.

The downside of explaining "the other side" is that it makes you look like you're against something. I'm not. I'm just not in favour without reservations. But so much is already written in favour of pay transparency, that it adds nothing to regurgitate those arguments. Any economy podcaster will have several podcasts about the pros.

(1) I've been part of collective bargaining, and this complete disempowerment annoyed me. Instead of the employer and me hashing something out, it's become the union and the employer deciding for me. It felt like mommy and daddy discussing my allowance.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#80

Post by patrickk »

switch007 wrote: post #78

Recruiters seem to be already ahead of the curve with “salary up to ”. Absolutely useless information that they give

It's mentioned in the article that a salary range should be published. So a minimum and maximum amount should be listed in a job posting to avoid this kind of nonsense.
Post reply on HN