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Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

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Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#31

Post by lettergram »

Aeolun wrote: post #30
motohagiography wrote: post #14

The two reasons I disagree with publishing salaries and "ranges" are that a) the implicit collusion creates mean reversion that disadvantages talent, who can afford to leave and go where they are valued and b) the values behind it presume that a job is something paternalistic granted by a manager in return for supplication, and not due consideration for value offered. Together these create a race to the bottom in off…

> not due consideration for value offered How does that work? If the value offered isn't enough, then I'm not working somewhere. Now I can skip the part where I still have to do the interview first before they tell me that 'based on experience' maxes out at 80k.

When the top 10 employers all see that they can charge $60k in the ads, they all just do it. They don’t need to ask, they can see.

Then any new person who enters the field sees the rates and just accepts it (both employer and employee).

“Sure go walk, I can see what everyone else is paying”

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#32

Post by zeroonetwothree »

gotoeleven wrote: post #8
bdw5204 wrote: post #3

From the article, it isn't clear whether a pay range of minimum wage to 1 million euros would be in compliance with this new rule. This is an actual tactic that many US employers have used to follow the letter but not the spirit of salary transparency laws.

I think the main problem is that these laws often fail to explicitly outlaw unintended consequences.

Just like all laws?

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#34

Post by zeroonetwothree »

justinclift wrote: post #13
carabiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://jobs.netflix.com/jobs/267459043

Heh: "The overall market range for roles in this area of Netflix is typically $90,000 - $900,000"

Netflix doesn’t have levels I think so this kind of makes sense.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#35

Post by badestrand »

lettergram wrote: post #31
Aeolun wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not due consideration for value offered How does that work? If the value offered isn't enough, then I'm not working somewhere. Now I can skip the part where I still have to do the interview first before they tell me that 'based on experience' maxes out at 80k.

When the top 10 employers all see that they can charge $60k in the ads, they all just do it. They don’t need to ask, they can see. Then any new person who enters the field sees the rates and just accepts it (both employer and employee). “Sure go walk, I can see what everyone else is paying”

So if a company wants to attract top talent they can just publicy offer +10% and they get the best people. Seems to me it could become a race to the top, heavily benefiting employees.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#36

Post by dalyons »

LoganDark wrote: post #22
justinclift wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh: "The overall market range for roles in this area of Netflix is typically $90,000 - $900,000"

That's so terrible. The "overall market" range for "roles in this area" are "typically" anywhere within an entire order of magnitude. I haven't seen anything vaguer in my entire time on this earth.

Well yes that’s the point. They’re clearly giving the middle finger to the requirement here

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#37

Post by nequo »

lucumo wrote: post #27
nonethewiser wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I like seeing the range as an applicant, but I do strongly agree with you in terms of paying people based off what they can command as individuals. Does a large range absolve your concerns?

Not entirely the same situation, but when companies have full salary transparency (i.e. the salaries of all are known to all), then there will be fewer outliers. So, there are fewer "underpaid" people, but also fewer "overpaid" people. I put those terms in scare-quotes because it's unknown whether or not those differences were deserved or not. I did have a source for that, but it was in a podcast and I can't remember…

> I did have a source for that, but it was in a podcast and I can't remember which.

Was it maybe on the What is Wrong with Hiring podcast?[1]

> At least in an opaque world, there's skills you can learn to become an outlier. With transparency the average could hinder your salary growth even more than it already does.

We can also reasonably expect an opposite effect. Salary secrecy could push down the pay of even high-productivity workers.

Searching for a new job is costly, both in terms of time and stress. If you don't know how little you earn, you are less likely to be dissatisfied with your current job and pay the search cost. This means that you are less likely to collect outside options that your employer would need to match by giving you a raise.

[1] https://www.whatiswrongwithhiring.com/

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#38

Post by ghaff »

badestrand wrote: post #35
lettergram wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the top 10 employers all see that they can charge $60k in the ads, they all just do it. They don’t need to ask, they can see. Then any new person who enters the field sees the rates and just accepts it (both employer and employee). “Sure go walk, I can see what everyone else is paying”

So if a company wants to attract top talent they can just publicy offer +10% and they get the best people. Seems to me it could become a race to the top, heavily benefiting employees.

Now you're in game theory territory.

A bunch of competitive companies can (don't say collude) mirror each other's salary ranges and maybe they're OK with not using higher salaries to hire away talent which may or not actually be worth more money anyway. Of course, this happens to some degree anyway as companies research this sort of information.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#39

Post by Mizoguchi »

lettergram wrote: post #31
Aeolun wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not due consideration for value offered How does that work? If the value offered isn't enough, then I'm not working somewhere. Now I can skip the part where I still have to do the interview first before they tell me that 'based on experience' maxes out at 80k.

When the top 10 employers all see that they can charge $60k in the ads, they all just do it. They don’t need to ask, they can see. Then any new person who enters the field sees the rates and just accepts it (both employer and employee). “Sure go walk, I can see what everyone else is paying”

Salary is just one part of total compensation. It's also pretty normal, at least in my experience, to know what your competitor is paying. In my field we are often poaching talent from each other, so closing a deal often comes down to not only a bump in salary but to better benefits and work conditions, say more PTO, higher bonuses and/or less amount of travel.

Re: Companies to publish salary ranges in job adverts under new EU rules

#40

Post by paxys »

motohagiography wrote: post #14

The two reasons I disagree with publishing salaries and "ranges" are that a) the implicit collusion creates mean reversion that disadvantages talent, who can afford to leave and go where they are valued and b) the values behind it presume that a job is something paternalistic granted by a manager in return for supplication, and not due consideration for value offered. Together these create a race to the bottom in off…

How is any of this connected to publishing salary ranges for a job?
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