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Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

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Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#291

Post by pkolaczk »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #240
jfghi wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there some improved BT technology out there? I’ve seldom seen it go more than 20 ft or through a substantial wall.

Wikipedia says this about Bluetooth: > In the most widely used mode, transmission power is limited to 2.5 milliwatts, giving it a very short range of up to 10 metres (33 ft). But that's not really how radiation works. You can transmit more by using more power, sure. The louder you shout, the easier it is for people to hear you. You can also receive more by having a bigger antenna. The harder you listen, the more you…

Antennas are not amplifiers. As long as the antenna is correctly tuned to the impedance of the transmitter output stage, it will radiate most of the power of the transmitter, but cannot exceed 100% (it is a passive element, and exceeding 100% would break the laws of conservation of energy). In this case the size of the antenna does not affect the total power emitted and there will be no range gains from using a bigger antenna.

What the antenna size/shape can affect is the directionality of the beam. By emitting the same power directionally, you can increase the range in some directions at the expense of reducing the range in all other directions. But the total power would be still the same.

Also the reception gain is actually the same thing as emission gain. You cannot make a passive antenna that has better reception without making it more directional, which means worse reception from some other directions. You cannot improve reception from all directions by making a bigger antenna.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#292

Post by smaudet »

wincy wrote: post #202
qgin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could live with auto-connect, but the assumption that I want to immediately start playing anything seems like a nuts assumption to me.

What’s hilarious is the $10 Bluetooth retrofit I got on Amazon in my 2011 car doesn’t even do this. It just works as a Bluetooth speaker but doesn’t start playing and connects only when I turn on the car. Simple and easy to use.

I think this is the majority of the problem(s) with bluetooth, bad defaults.

In cars, second issue is no button to switch on/off, instead either the overly complex pairing process or the overly aggressive one.

In phones, its non standard playback - I'm in the camp that audio should pause/resume for calls, and calls should always be routed through the phone you use.

If you get a call while on the road either it should do nothing (no connect to car or auto route) or it should be hands free, per phone preference (no fiddling with settings in the car dash, period). This mostly works with some setups, but there's no easy config option and phones don't all have easily customized UIs. Your phone should probably be in charge of the volume too - some car I have gotten into try to rupture my eardrums, others seem to be on whisperquiet and need considerable cranking. Oh, and there should be a BT device priority, there usually isn't and sometimes my headphones get usurped by the car.

My solution so far if I want BT is just to use headphones, and unpair all devices from the dash. I would use in car BT more if they worked in a reliably similar fashion.

A standardized "ask the user" protocol might help some. I don't think Apple or Android play are valid alternatives, though - there are legit use cases for BT interactions that don't involve phones at all, making over complex top heavy proprietary protocols the norm just destandardizes things more, it doesn't make them better.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#293

Post by makapuf »

charles_f wrote: post #234
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mazda CX-5 has buttons for A/C control but I'm still annoyed because my '99 Civic had knobs which are infinitely better. One for temp, one for fan. That's all I need. Don't want no stinking buttons for fan intensity in a row of 100 other buttons.

My old cx-5 has knobs, I love them, but the rest of the system sucks (notably, if you allow the car to download your contacts it will take several minutes at each start to allow you to play audio)

This! My car automatically syncs my contacts (which I have never used) once it connects my Phone, instead of,like, playing the radio, allowing me to call, or show me the goddamn GPS route.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#294

Post by aphrax »

charles_f wrote: post #234
8n4vidtmkvmk wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Mazda CX-5 has buttons for A/C control but I'm still annoyed because my '99 Civic had knobs which are infinitely better. One for temp, one for fan. That's all I need. Don't want no stinking buttons for fan intensity in a row of 100 other buttons.

My old cx-5 has knobs, I love them, but the rest of the system sucks (notably, if you allow the car to download your contacts it will take several minutes at each start to allow you to play audio)

Oh, is that why it takes so long to start audio? If you dont download contacts does audio start in a reasonable time?

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#295

Post by senko »

Curiously, most of the ac/nav/media controls in my Hyundai Tucson are touch (big touchscreen with the usual suspects, and a row of buttons that aren't part of the screen and could've been normal buttons, but are instead capacitive ones that don't provide any tactile feedback).

I am grateful they've decided to at least stop there.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#296

Post by smaudet »

gregmac wrote: post #275
tastysandwich wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice! I guess they fixed it up This review is for their 2021 model. > Plus, while there is a climate button and fan speed button, as well as dials for the temperature settings, you still have to go through the screen to control whether the air conditioner is on or off, and also which ventilation is active. Odd. https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-reviews/honda-cr-v-81488 And a demonstration, though it's for an even olde…

I have a 2016 Civic, it's almost identical to the video. All I can say is this is such a non-issue: The "auto" mode they implemented works really well. I use the temperature knob pretty much exclusively. If it's hot, the A/C comes on. If it's cold, it doesn't. If the windshield needs defrosting, you press that button and.. it defrosts, then press "auto" to get back. I've literally never manually changed the A/C setti…

"and once or maybe twice in 5 years of ownership have I manually adjusted vents."

I'm going to guess you daily drive mostly and don't pickup many groceries then, and probably don't have a wife/kids.

Blasting heat is usefull when e.g. you don't have windows, blasting cold is usefull when you have raw meat in the back and you don't feel like freezing too.

Or, you drive with someone with larger/smaller body mass or metabolism, you want to blast cold air, they want to be warm (adding/removing layers is not always an option).

There are numerous ways auto mode falls apart here, there are probably others I am not thinking of...I do know that when I take cars that have an auto mode in them it can be nice, but I usually get annoyed with them because something (blast of air, heat through the windshield) messes it up and I just want "cool" or "hot" air not to fiddle with bad UIs on dimly lit displays I can't see in the glare from the snow/blue sky to figure out the "right" temp to reconfigure too...

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#297

Post by flangola7 »

pkolaczk wrote: post #291
thaumasiotes wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wikipedia says this about Bluetooth: > In the most widely used mode, transmission power is limited to 2.5 milliwatts, giving it a very short range of up to 10 metres (33 ft). But that's not really how radiation works. You can transmit more by using more power, sure. The louder you shout, the easier it is for people to hear you. You can also receive more by having a bigger antenna. The harder you listen, the more you…

Antennas are not amplifiers. As long as the antenna is correctly tuned to the impedance of the transmitter output stage, it will radiate most of the power of the transmitter, but cannot exceed 100% (it is a passive element, and exceeding 100% would break the laws of conservation of energy). In this case the size of the antenna does not affect the total power emitted and there will be no range gains from using a bigge…

Bigger antennas can positively pick up more signal. The Mars rovers do not have megawatt radio transmitters, instead we use enormous antennas on Earth.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#298

Post by VintageCool »

beAbU wrote: post #221
qgin wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could live with auto-connect, but the assumption that I want to immediately start playing anything seems like a nuts assumption to me.

Ironic, I'm /completely/ the opposite. My radio cannot connect and start playing music fast enough. The radio stations in my area are all total and utter shit, and I'd rather listen to white noise while I wait for the BT to connect and start playing my music. I find it difficult to even listen to a radio station for a minute these days. It's now permanently set to a dead frequency. My old car had an aftermarket head…

I like to listen to podcasts or audiobooks while I drive. Usually I do this through Bluetooth.

Occasionally I want to use Android Auto so that the maps will show up on the car's screen. I have to plug in my phone through USB to make this happen. The audiobook will now play over the USB connection.

When I disconnect from USB or when I turn off the car, it switches from my audibook to SiriusXM ads. At twice the volume. It's incredibly obnoxious.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#299

Post by smaudet »

mcronce wrote: post #164
tastysandwich wrote: post #154

When researching family cars recently, I literally avoided the Honda CR-V just because the AC was controlled via the touch screen. There's a "Climate" button, which brings up a screen on the display where you can turn the aircon on/off, up/down, etc. It's just horrendous. Give me my dials. My worst gripe - which all modern cars have - is the aggressive bluetooth auto-connect. If my wife takes the car, it will automat…

The other day my mom was at our house, parked next to me. She got in her car to leave at the same time I did. I pulled out my phone and put on some music - noting that it was weird that I needed to do anything at all, typically it just resumes playing as soon as it connects to Bluetooth. But I didn't get any audio. That's weird. Until she drove away and the music started playing through my phone's speaker a few secon…

Buy two of the same headphone, watch it not work because the software differentiates on the label not the MAC, and never asks you or auto labels the one you connected to...

Not a BT problem so much as a bad software pattern. I solve this by naming my devices uniquely.

Re: Hyundai promises to keep buttons in cars

#300

Post by zmeden »

cyberax wrote: post #175

I wish automakers would make buttons with small programmable OLED displays, so that I could bind custom actions to them. I hated button layout in ALL of the cars I've owned. I usually needed only a couple of buttons, with the rest being unused.

That would be nice but very expensive and not so robust as moulded parts without any display/electronic on the surface. I wonder if there is a cheaper way of customizing the button icons than with OLED displays.
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