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Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

andrewlock.net

81–90 of 357 posts

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#81
post #72

Odd question maybe, my company uses C# and I've been picking up more backend responsibilities. However, I'm a Linux and Neovim user. I do have Windows and Visual Studio available but I just find it awkward. Is anyone here having success with Linux and Neovim for C#? Even trying to learn more about the language is awkward as so many resources go straight into VS.

Can't comment on neovim. VS Code works well on Linux for another option.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's like either assembly or Python, but nothing in the middle. Dapper seems to be in the middle and it is pretty popular

Yeah, but from what I saw it doesn't help much with master-detail setups? Like, inserting or updating an order with order lines etc. We rely heavily on those.

Use transactions => fails rollback. No need to correct failures.

Important concepts: .NoTracking and setting the EntityState correctly ( mark as deleted, updated, ... )

Additionally, sometimes it's easier to update things granularly, instead of all at once.

I suppose the annoyance comes from updating in bulk on a POST and trying to map everything?

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#83
post #72

Odd question maybe, my company uses C# and I've been picking up more backend responsibilities. However, I'm a Linux and Neovim user. I do have Windows and Visual Studio available but I just find it awkward. Is anyone here having success with Linux and Neovim for C#? Even trying to learn more about the language is awkward as so many resources go straight into VS.

I’ve been using Rider in Ubuntu for a year or so, and not really missed VS. Only once when looking into the identity UI templates which required some scaffolding stuff in VS.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#84
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It better be at a 30GB install size.

A 2TB nvme drive is less than $200. If VS is saving significant dev time, people would install it even if much larger install.

I'm not sure it's 10x as nice as competitors, which is the context here. If it were just about space who cares, but when your competitor does the exact same at a much smaller size and ultimately better price too, it's a little confusing what is going on with VS.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is surprising to me that C# and .NET is comparatively under-represented in North America where it was born. Nothing but good experience in developing and operating software with it, both desktop apps (Win/Mac) and backend services (Linux).

I like .Net and C#, but I've had a lot of experiences that were not good. I personally hated working with Visual Studio 2017. 2019 was an improvement, but one so small it was still awful. I recently used it again (2021?) and was cynically surprised that they FINALLY got scrolling that isn't forcibly line-based. Why did they even bother now ? This and some other small things that used to make the experience painful ar…

Weird how experiences differ. I found VS to be one of the best IDEs I've ever used. Of course in conjunction with C#.

Yeah it's big and takes some big chunk of resources, but that has never been a problem in my daily work.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#86
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ORM? EF Core is pretty good. We're moving to .Net, and I was surprised by how poor the built-in DB stuff is. It's like either assembly or Python, but nothing in the middle. That said I've also been impressed about how nice it is to get stuff going. I used C# back in the .Net 1.1 days and yeah massive difference in ergonomics.

>We're moving to .Net, and I was surprised by how poor the built-in DB stuff is Right now EF Core is probably the best ORM that has ever existed. What exactly is missing? Although for performance you would probably reach for something like Dapper but that is not an ORM.

For performance, .NoTracking() and not calling .SaveChanges() on every loop already does wonders.

I usually call .SaveChanges() when i % 20 == 0

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#87
post #51
post #32

I'd be curious to know what is the actual adoption of .net core. I.e. of all the actively developed applications (not just new projects), what is the .net core / .net framework split. I found that the upgrade process is not seamless. Asp.net core has little to do with asp.net MVC. Winform introduced all sorts of contraints. The BCL is full of small changes or features missing. People are less vocal than for the pytho…

> Not breaking your users used to be a laudable goal of the .net team. I miss it Is it that bad once you are on .NET Core? Asking as someone still on Framework. Framework -> Core ofcourse is breaking, what did you expect when going cross platform and totally rearchitected?

It’s fine while on core. Maybe adjusted the app setup 2-3 times, fairly trivial stuff, an hour or so in the last year

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#88

My big problem with .NET is that a lot of line-of-business apps were written using ASP.NET Web Forms, but there is no upgrade path other than “rewrite most of it”. It feels like the pain everyone went through upgrading from Python 2 to Python 3. It also doesn’t help that .NET Framework has its support cycle tied to the OS, and hence is 10+ years. This means that businesses can be lazy and just leave these old apps to…

ASP.NET Web Forms are a complete trainwreck and an abuse of HTTP and other basic web development standards (e.g. by using javascript: URLs and POSTing forms for every single interaction with the page). It is broken by design. ASP.NET MVC 1.0 came out in 2009, there was plenty of time to modernize those apps.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#89
post #72

Odd question maybe, my company uses C# and I've been picking up more backend responsibilities. However, I'm a Linux and Neovim user. I do have Windows and Visual Studio available but I just find it awkward. Is anyone here having success with Linux and Neovim for C#? Even trying to learn more about the language is awkward as so many resources go straight into VS.

I’ve been using Rider in Ubuntu for a year or so, and not really missed VS. Only once when looking into the identity UI templates which required some scaffolding stuff in VS.

I’m using it on Xubuntu with Rider as well. I’m using the CLI to scaffold identity including UI.

Re: Understanding the .NET ecosystem: The evolution of .NET into .NET 7

#90
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're moving to .Net, and I was surprised by how poor the built-in DB stuff is Right now EF Core is probably the best ORM that has ever existed. What exactly is missing? Although for performance you would probably reach for something like Dapper but that is not an ORM.

Well that was my point, either you're writing a lot of code yourself ("assembly"), or you use EF ("Python"). We're not used to something like EF, perhaps it would work for us. But debugging generated queries due to performance issues is something we'd like to avoid. For now the decision was made to not use EF.

EF handles migration and you can re-use the DbConnection and execute plain SQL.

If you don't want to debug difficult queries, then extend it to use Dapper and use the best of both worlds.

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