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Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

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Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#71

Post by tut-urut-utut »

causi wrote: post #38
miroljub wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a bold statement for someone who left Iraq fourteen years ago and never went back. Probably the current regime is better than Saddam. Is it so much better it was worth two trillion dollars and half a million lives? Is it so much better the rise and fight against ISIS was worth it? I would like to hear the perspective of someone who lives there. You don't need to be "someone living there" to answer this ques…

Just imagine half a million people in your state got killed by some foreign invader Half a million people were not killed by a foreign invader. They were killed as a result of a foreign invader destroying the existing power structure. The number actually killed by coalition troops is a small fraction of the total.

Ok. Good to know they are not killed by a foreign invader. It’s just that their deaths are caused by a foreign invasion. Good, I guess citizens of the invading countries can now sleep well.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#72

Post by pjc50 »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #70
pjc50 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There was a time when we could have made Russia an ally That was at best a narrow window in the 90s. The Russians backed Serbia during the Yugoslav war.

And that’s wrong because?

Srebrenica? Siege of Sarajevo? (lifted by NATO intervention)

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#73

Post by [deleted] »

rdevsrex wrote: post #36
miroljub wrote: post #6

[flagged]

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

[deleted]

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#74

Post by mopsi »

rdevsrex wrote: post #36
miroljub wrote: post #6

[flagged]

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

> Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to.

That so-called promise is a lie made up more than a decade later. Russia and NATO have in writing[1] that they agree to respect that third countries' are free to choose their allies, and even when asked specifically about Eastern Europe joining NATO in 2004 (which was overwhelmingly their initiative, against the hesitancy of existing members), Putin personally said that it's fine and Kremlin's official press release repeated it, without any mention of any broken promises or other grievances.[2]

[1] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/official_texts_25468.htm

[2] http://www.en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/30678

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#75

Post by mopsi »

hotz wrote: post #21
sofixa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I smell sarcasm, but still, you're not that wrong. The motivation absolutely matters - US Imperialism is much softer, even in it's war crimes, than Russian Imperialism that comes with genocide bundled. In the former case where it hurts is that they try to paint a rosy picture (freedom and democracy etc.) while committing war crimes / invading left and right for business interests, and that hypocrisy is very annoying.…

Can we compare the list of invasions and proxy wars started by America and Russia? To justify the atrocities of the west is the height of hypocrisy.

Go ahead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Russia

Even since the fall of the USSR, Russia was not at war only in 1998 when their economy collapsed in the aftermath of Asian financial crisis and they simply couldn't afford it.

And the list doesn't include covert operations all around the world. For example, Latin America in the 20th century was greatly affected by them, Nicaragua in particular. Deep involvement in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is missing too.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#76

Post by cudgy »

kl_r wrote: post #56
rdevsrex wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not the same, but there are similarities. It's not like the US hasn't knowingly killed civilians before. And speaking of the war in Ukraine, I truly believe the US provoked Russia. Of course, Russia is responsible for its war crimes, but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. There was a time when we could have made Russia an…

> [..] but the US and its allies are the ones who wanted to encircle Russia by expanding NATO eastwards, even after they promised not to. This is simply not correct, and even Gorbachev has confirmed this. There has never been any agreement stating that NATO is not allowed to accept new members in any particular direction. There were statements made by western politicians but never any pen to paper. The sovereign stat…

Why does it matter whether statements were made? It’s quite obvious to any objective observer that a large, powerful nation would perceive an enemy alliance expanding to its border would be perceived as a threat.

How would the US respond to an enemy alliance incorporating Mexico or Canada?

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#77

Post by cudgy »

banannaise wrote: post #24
sofixa wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I smell sarcasm, but still, you're not that wrong. The motivation absolutely matters - US Imperialism is much softer, even in it's war crimes, than Russian Imperialism that comes with genocide bundled. In the former case where it hurts is that they try to paint a rosy picture (freedom and democracy etc.) while committing war crimes / invading left and right for business interests, and that hypocrisy is very annoying.…

> than Russian Imperialism that comes with genocide bundled The United States has killed well over a quarter million Arab civilians, many of those directly through war crimes, in an ethnically motivated invasion. Explain what isn't genocide about that.

Why was this downvoted?

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#78

Post by cudgy »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #46

More then few millions.. not just "hundreds of thousands", i don't like the way it is worded He most likely used data from a survey in 2007 [1], hence i'll question the integrity of the article Already mentions millions in 2008 [2] > More than one million Iraqis have died as a result of the conflict in their country since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003 And 2.4 millions in 2016 [3] > But our calculations, using the bes…

Could it be some of the deaths were caused by the instability that toppling the existing Saddam Hussein government caused and not only by direct US military involvement? Some consequences that come to mind are warlords battling for control of provinces, unleashed tribal factions now free to kill each other, collateral damage from US military attacks destroying critical civilian infrastructure like sewage treatment and medical capacity, starvation, etc.

Re: Hundreds of Thousands of Iraqis Were Killed in the War. One Was My Brother

#80

Post by cudgy »

causi wrote: post #5

And for what? Today, Iraq is struggling to rebuild itself. Iran and ISIS remain a serious threat. The Americans hoped to build a Jeffersonian republic in the heart of the Middle East, and failed. The whole thing seems like a horrible, tragic mistake. I disagree. This is a bold statement for someone who left Iraq fourteen years ago and never went back. Probably the current regime is better than Saddam. Is it so much b…

The going criticism of Sadaam was that he had killed 10,000 people during his reign (as a CIA backed dictator I may add). Even the most US fanboy supported reports admit the US committed more deaths in the first week of the war; many times that 10k over the course of the war.

Which regime would rather live under if you were a normal Iraqui?

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