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Leaving China

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Re: Leaving China

#331

Post by justusw »

andrekandre wrote: post #163
hayst4ck wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While there are very jaded views about cultural superiority and other things like that. I think the truth is probably less cynical. I can move to japan and marry a Japanese wife, work for a Japanese company, pay Japanese taxes, and speak fluent Japanese, but I will never be Japanese because my skin is white. People can move to America, and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that yo…

> I will never be Japanese because my skin is white. for some reason i find this statement kind of strange... are you saying "japanese" to mean "fit in as japanese" or "japanese nationality"? > and as long as you speak English without an accent, there is an assumption that you are American. n=1 but this has not been my experience.... > and speak fluent Japanese without accent?

I would argue that the path to Japanese citizenship is easier than being seen as Japanese. One is a pre-defined legal process, the other one depends on the complexities of what is cultural identity.

Re: Leaving China

#332

Post by partiallypro »

_kava wrote: post #234
partiallypro wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A vast majority of Vietnamese view China in a worse light than the US, and China and Vietnam have recently had quarrels over the South China Sea. They share a lot of history...and some of that history includes China invading Vietnam several times. I wouldn't count on Vietnam siding with China in a global conflict.

>I wouldn't count on Vietnam siding with China in a global conflict. The last global conflict had the current Vietnamese government sided with China and the USSR against the US. I think you already lost that bet. I would like to ask you for sources on Vietnamese sentiment regarding China and the US. But that is probably irrelevant. What the majority of Vietnamese think ultimately doesn't mean anything, because it isn…

> The last global conflict had the current Vietnamese government sided with China and the USSR against the US. I think you already lost that bet.

I didn't claim a bet, but anyhow I don't know how to tell you this, but that was 40+ years ago. Even then you're not quite right, they went to war with each other in the 70s. The world is much different now and China at that time was not considered a global power. Now it is, and a lot of its neighbors don't like it. That includes countries like India and Vietnam.

> I would like to ask you for sources on Vietnamese sentiment regarding China and the US.

Ok, here is one of many.

"Based on the latest ABS data, only 25 percent of Vietnamese respondents believe that China has exerted a positive impact on their country, but for United States, the number goes up to 85 percent. "

https://thediplomat.com/2021/05/china-and-the-us-who-has-mor...

Re: Leaving China

#333

Post by Vt71fcAqt7 »

EFreethought wrote: post #221
simonh wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They do change, in mainland China they have devolved considerably under Xi. I have Family over there, and a lot of the optimism of a decade ago was already being squeezed out of the country before the pandemic.

I have never been to China, but to me it seems that with all their faults that ultimately Deng, Jiang and Hu wanted what was best for China. But Xi seems to care about Xi.

I think Xi also cares about China, and he truly believes that a fully managed state and economy is better than democracy and free markets. Also note that Deng was in control in 1989. It's a bit more complicated than good vs evil here (which is true generally).

Re: Leaving China

#334

Post by slaw »

maskedinvader wrote: post #277
givemeethekeys wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, they're most definitely expats. Their engineer colleagues from South Asia call themselves expats.

Interesting, so why don’t we ever see the word expats associated with the millions of laborers from poorer nations working in the Middle East with no path to citizenship ever referred to as expats ? Let’s be honest here, it’s exclusively only ever used when it’s someone who’s predominately white and from the west (and either rich themselves or come from a rich country)

No one calls then immigrants either. They are temporary workers.

Re: Leaving China

#335

Post by fortuna86 »

tatrajim wrote: post #264
hayst4ck wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a Taiwanese election in Taiwan. I observed their polling stations. A Taiwanese citizen started a conversation and educated me, an American, on democracy and elections. This Taiwanese person told me that elections are for the loser. If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. That's why electronic voting machines are anti-thetical to the purpose of an election. Electr…

Have to agree, from study in Taiwan, life in the PRC, Hong Kong, and South Korea over decades: democracy in Taiwan is healthier than that in the U.S. For the skeptical, check out videos of how ballots are counted in Taiwan. Individual ballots are lifted out on the ballot box, one-by-one, and held up for any and all observers to verify. Compare this to how the matter is typically conducted in the U.S., in near-secrecy…

every single election in the US is subject to a complete audit after the fact. counting quickly and verifying accurately after the fact are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Leaving China

#336

Post by est »

> China’s leadership has made clear that they will prioritize unification and Party integrity over the economy and the well-being of their people.

Even if China did conqure the land of Taiwan, it's difficult to support tens of millions of population to its pre-war living standards. Both mainland and taiwan had pension+aging population problems of their own. Conquest was the easy part, surviving the aftermath is difficult. Destroyed Taiwan economy, international boycott, etc.

Re: Leaving China

#337

Post by fortuna86 »

wdkrnls wrote: post #293
chii wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people have shown that they will not believe in the validity of the election regardless of the evidence presented. there's that, but an electronic voting machine is more complex. Election fraud for paper ballots is "easily" detected, but not really so for electronic voting machines.

Google Professor Philip Stark and read some of the papers he publishes about the dangers of electronic voting machines.

If you audit every election after they are done, what is the danger of using electric voting machines ?

Re: Leaving China

#338

Post by D_Alex »

re-thc wrote: post #266
shell0x wrote: post #139

Lots of people used to go to China for work and could do pretty much anything they want, but since Jinping took over it went downhill fast. Most people in the expat community I know went to Hong Kong and Singapore instead for the following reasons: 1) Easy to do business 2) Easy to get your money in and out . 3) Low taxes 4) Central travel hubs in Asia 5) Less backwards mindset as these cities feel more cosmopolitan…

HK's problem isn't exactly "just" freedom. Everything since has been going downhill.

IMO, Hong Kong's number 1 problem is that its unique position as the gateway to China has faded away, both the role as an intermediary and as a key shipping port.

Everything else is just detail.

Re: Leaving China

#339

Post by photochemsyn »

imiric wrote: post #257
photochemsyn wrote: post #214

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

Let's entertain the possibility that China wasn't responsible for a lab leak, and that the zoonotic theory is true. Whatever the source, we know that the Wuhan wet market was a super-spreader event, which Chinese authorities concede. Following this, China grounded all domestic flights in January 2020, yet still allowed outbound international flights well into March 2020. Countries were left to ban flights from China…

From what I've read, it seems the virus jumped into the human population around mid-November 2019 at the latest, and possibly early in October.

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/first-covid-19-case-coul...

> "Another study by Australian scientists, published on Thursday in the Scientific Reports journal, used genomic data to show SARS-CoV-2 binds to human receptors far more easily than other species, suggesting it was already adapted to humans when it first emerged."

I think the evidence is steadily getting stronger for Sars-CoV-2 being the result of the accidental infection of a lab worker with a CRISPR-modified bat betacoronavirus that was being tested in human cell lines and/or genetically modified lab animals. From there it spread globally by train and airplane.

Re: Leaving China

#340

Post by re-thc »

dirtyid wrote: post #309
threeseed wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you swap out the entire population of HK with those from PRC then all you have left is a name and a bunch of buildings. Because it is the people and their unique customs that defines a culture. You seem to be way too flippant about cultural genocide.

No one's swapping out the entire population. But populations change, when people move, demographics recompose, and local customs accordingly. HK nativism/localism rose after ~150/day “one way permits” from PRC to HK (for the wealthy and family reunification) led to 1/7 (15%) of the city's growth coming from mainlanders in 20 years. That's relatively fast, as is visible within a generation, but also about as subtle as…

> All these arguments defending that only HKers should determine HK culture forgets that PRC "immigrants" to HK are NEW HKers and get a voice too, even if the flows inevitably shifts them towards becoming "just another Chinese city" - as if Chinese cities are all homogeneous.

Maybe think about the "why" instead of just complain? Try to understand things instead of just saying they suck?

- Can you use Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, etc in China? No.

- Do you get a death sentence in China? Yes.

- If you say something against the current government can you get arrested? Yes.

- Do you know what happened to Jack Ma and many others?

- Can you move your hard earned money out of China?

And lots more...

No it's not the same. HK provided what China mainland couldn't. It was seen as a paradise at 1 point and PRC wanted to get rid of this superiority. It made more $$$, had better jobs, better lifestyle, etc. People wanted to go here like in the "gold rush". The hype train was setting foot on HK = getting rich. Of course this didn't happen. This created a huge divide.

It's not that the culture changed. It's not that things moved fast. It's that it's driven away the essence of what made HK great.

And it's not like Americans don't complain about Mexicans. Trump even wanted to build his own wall :)

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