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Leaving China

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Re: Leaving China

#261

Post by chii »

ashconnor wrote: post #241
jasonjei wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Singapore is a republic with a large population of the Chinese diaspora. However, the control of government under its system has not changed parties since its independence from the UK (whether you agree or not, some have called it de facto single party state). Chinese culture is weaved extensively into its culture, including Chinese character names in identification cards for those that identify as Chinese ethnicity.…

Singapore is a complex beast. On the one hand, all the political tools to kick the PAP out exist. Elections are free albeit not entirely fair. That said the PAP has used the legal system to exclude opposition candidates and the election districts are gerrymandered [0]. But even with these issues resolved I believe the PAP would still win elections [1]. They've steered the economy well. The PAP regularly receive prais…

> But even with these issues resolved I believe the PAP would still win elections

It only takes one person going "rogue" to topple this system of trust. Is it so hard to imagine that not all authoritarian systems could be continuously benevolent?

Re: Leaving China

#262

Post by re-thc »

chii wrote: post #259
re-thc wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We all knew (hopefully) that would never happen (keep their promise). It's nothing China specific. Even lots of elected politicians fail on it in any country.

I think hindsight might've clouded your assessment of the attitude during the time pre-HK crackdown. It was originally a time of optimistic hope that China would become more and more democratic, and the integration of HK back to the mainland will not have been hard (at least, china would meet somewhere in the middle).

There was already a wave of people considering, planning and did actually leave pre-1997 and around that time. A few did go back to HK afterwards when things looked better but left again due to the current issues.

I don't know who was optimistic. The West? Definitely not those in HK. It was a time when anti-China sentiment was high and supported by the media, artists, etc as the trend (vs the crackdown now). There were songs and campaigns supporting those that wanted freedom. Learnt from history many of the older generation that have witnessed the war and after knew of how CCP and army worked.

No 1 wanted a death sentence either. Those have worked in the mainland know the "law" doesn't exist as it does in the West (including HK at the time). Gang activity vastly dropped post-1997 because of a fear of the death sentence. A lot of them and their money left for other countries.

Re: Leaving China

#263

Post by chii »

Aperocky wrote: post #134
hayst4ck wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched a Taiwanese election in Taiwan. I observed their polling stations. A Taiwanese citizen started a conversation and educated me, an American, on democracy and elections. This Taiwanese person told me that elections are for the loser. If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. That's why electronic voting machines are anti-thetical to the purpose of an election. Electr…

> If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. The idea seems correct, however, unsure how electronic voting machine comes into the picture, perhaps only in a mental sense, but people have shown that they will not believe in the validity of the election regardless of the evidence presented.

> people have shown that they will not believe in the validity of the election regardless of the evidence presented.

there's that, but an electronic voting machine is more complex. Election fraud for paper ballots is "easily" detected, but not really so for electronic voting machines.

Re: Leaving China

#264

Post by tatrajim »

hayst4ck wrote: post #116
coldtea wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meanwhile, Taiwan’s value to the Chinese diaspora can’t be understated—it’s a bastion of a mandarin-speaking democracy. A bastion of democracy which has been a right wing dictatorship from its inception until the 90s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Terror_(Taiwan)

I watched a Taiwanese election in Taiwan. I observed their polling stations. A Taiwanese citizen started a conversation and educated me, an American, on democracy and elections. This Taiwanese person told me that elections are for the loser. If the loser does not believe in the validity of the election, it serves no purpose. That's why electronic voting machines are anti-thetical to the purpose of an election. Electr…

Have to agree, from study in Taiwan, life in the PRC, Hong Kong, and South Korea over decades: democracy in Taiwan is healthier than that in the U.S.

For the skeptical, check out videos of how ballots are counted in Taiwan. Individual ballots are lifted out on the ballot box, one-by-one, and held up for any and all observers to verify. Compare this to how the matter is typically conducted in the U.S., in near-secrecy behind closed doors, involving convoluted use of a congeries of machines, having closed-source software.

https://youtu.be/rSdbDagWLFQ

Re: Leaving China

#265

Post by cushychicken »

dumpster_fire wrote: post #193
duxup wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think / didn't say it was a problem.

Someone married an Asian whose family happened to be ethnic Chinese, which made you think "huh these people are everywhere". (With regards to the diaspora comment) Then the comment, paraphrasing, "they think they're Chinese when they're not Chinese nationals at all". If their ancestors were from China, they don't "think" they're ethnic Chinese, they are ethnic Chinese. Unless you get into the nitty gritty clans and g…

I think OP meant he was surprised that the family felt a strong enough link to China to identify themselves as Chinese, even across time and distance.

Re: Leaving China

#266

Post by re-thc »

shell0x wrote: post #139

Lots of people used to go to China for work and could do pretty much anything they want, but since Jinping took over it went downhill fast. Most people in the expat community I know went to Hong Kong and Singapore instead for the following reasons: 1) Easy to do business 2) Easy to get your money in and out . 3) Low taxes 4) Central travel hubs in Asia 5) Less backwards mindset as these cities feel more cosmopolitan…

HK's problem isn't exactly "just" freedom. Everything since has been going downhill.

Re: Leaving China

#267

Post by samus »

adastra22 wrote: post #177
maskedinvader wrote: post #129

Can we at HN at-least refer to the author as immigrant as opposed to expats? what's an expat anyways ? why does the western world to get to make these tiers where they are expats but arabs, asians, africans etc are all immigrants ?

> what's an expat anyways A white immigrant.

That probably depends on your definition of "white". Polish and other people from Eastern Europe are often viewed as immigrants.

Re: Leaving China

#268

Post by solresol »

imiric wrote: post #257
photochemsyn wrote: post #214

I suspect China's draconian, desperate attempt to eliminate Covid entirely was largely due to official guilt. They knew that their poorly managed reckless science program at the Wuhan Institute of Virology was the source of the outbreak, and they wanted to somehow prove they could wipe the virus out entirely (which they couldn't). Eventually they had to give up. I wonder what happens to people in China who point this…

Let's entertain the possibility that China wasn't responsible for a lab leak, and that the zoonotic theory is true. Whatever the source, we know that the Wuhan wet market was a super-spreader event, which Chinese authorities concede. Following this, China grounded all domestic flights in January 2020, yet still allowed outbound international flights well into March 2020. Countries were left to ban flights from China…

I have heard this version of events many times, but that's not how I remember it.

I remember the only international flights allowed as being the repatriation flights. (e.g. when an overseas government organised for some non-Chinese who were in Wuhan to be able to come home). And presumably the return flights for planes that would otherwise have been stranded in Wuhan.

FactCheck matches my memory...

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/05/trumps-flawed-china-travel...

Wikipedia for 23rd January says all outbound flights were banned:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_COVID-19_pande...

And anyway, there's something wrong with the whole idea: if domestic flights were banned international flights were still allowed, wouldn't the people of Wuhan who wanted to get to Beijing just fly via Bangkok or Seoul? A ban on domestic-only flights wouldn't have achieved anything.

Re: Leaving China

#269

Post by dougmwne »

y0ssar1an wrote: post #169

The Chinese invasion of Taiwan is inevitable. When it happens, every Western company will suddenly have to pull out, just like they did Russia. The losses for Western companies will be tremendous. For some, it will be a mortal blow. I can hear some of you saying "...but, but, China would never... because that would be so stupid...". It doesn't have to be a good idea! Russia's invasion of Ukraine a) wasn't a good idea…

I think that what you are saying is now obvious to every western company and they are in the process of getting out or diversifying their supply chain. If China can lock down their country for years over Covid, they are capable of anything. Invading Taiwan, even if it had repercussions would be no problem at all. I think the government is likely observing the fallout from Ukraine right now and planning how best to mitigate the western playbook. If they wait till the next US administration, one likely to be inwardly focused, they might have an even easier time.

Re: Leaving China

#270

Post by TMWNN »

WheatMillington wrote: post #71
nonethewiser wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Another woman I met on a plane said that the people who ran the school she taught at threatened to revoke her visa trapping her in China. She said she was leaving for "vacation" but was not going to go back. She was also visibly shaken. I know someone working as an architect in China and apparently his company holds onto his college degree. Hes concerned he won’t get it back if he doesn’t remain on good terms. I wa…

This reads like it was written by someone cosplaying as an adult. A college degree is not an irreplaceable piece of paper to be guarded with your life - otherwise it would live in a vault somewhere. You can trivially have the certificate reprinted.

> This reads like it was written by someone cosplaying as an adult.

Not necessarily. From my understanding, in Asia the actual diploma is often used as a credential for obtaining employment. (The context is reading about a con man who set up a fake job listing to attract Western job candidates, obtained copies of applicants' diplomas, then used them to construct a fake diploma that he used to get a job for himself.)

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