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Leaving China

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Re: Leaving China

#31

Post by baybal2 »

baybal2 wrote: post #18
xiaolingxiao wrote: post #2

Can other expats who has since left, or have decided to stay, share their experience as well?

I've been working in, and out of South China since 2009, and have called it quit 2019, when it became clear the industry was done for, and CoVID mess only reinforced my decision. I never held any fraternal feelings with the country, even though I am ethnic Chinese, nor I had any delusions about making long term plans there. In my years there, I kept seeing rose coloured glasses wearing American expats. I met Tim Cook…

The fallacy of "reformed communism" hopers is that with development came not their hoped reform, but even stronger regime, and harder life.

Way more, many times more rich Chinese are fleeing China now, when it reached some level of wealth, and industrialisation, than back 10-15 years ago, when China was incomparably poorer, and everyday life was incomparably harder.

All of that was easily predictable. You have a terrible regime, you give it money, and power. It only becomes stronger, and more terrible, not less.

Communism is irreformable.

Re: Leaving China

#32

Post by freitzkriesler2 »

tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

I've lived in China and I can tell you, you will NOT like China especially for the reasons you've stated.

China has a ton of problems that aren't readily apparent unless you are feet on the ground. The majority of the culture of china is, "dog eat dog" in that you will be scammed and taken advantage of unless you speak fluent Mandarin.

You will run into problems with excessive Chinese bureaucracy both with the government and services you need. The only way to break through is with a bribe.

Things we take for granted like food and product safety are secondary.

In the first month, I got incredibly sick for a food born parasite (this was from a good grocery store too nonetheless).

Don't ever eat from street vendors (google gutter oil).

You also run the risk of getting physically attacked when relations with America are rough. I heard stories of a guy that got jumped by a group of chinese men after Trump was elected. He didn't even vote for him and the police did not care.

China is the type of place you visit, make a bunch of money, and get out.

In all honesty, you'd be happier living in a 2nd or 3rd tier Benelux or Dach town.

Re: Leaving China

#33

Post by chasil »

askonomm wrote: post #17
tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

This hits home for me a lot. I've lived in Spain, Argentina and Finland, all in hoping to fill whatever gap I thought it would, whether that would be life quality, weather, culture or whatever. But after the honeymoon period, the cracks started to show at every place. I'm now back in my home country, Estonia, which I (now) think is the best for me - but that creeping feeling of something better being somewhere out th…

There is no place, and no time, where people are better than what you see before you right now.

Sometimes, the political system is better.

People? There is nothing new under the sun.

Re: Leaving China

#34

Post by realusername »

inconceivable wrote: post #19
tomohelix wrote: post #4

What I find ironic is that as businesses leave China, they move into the exact same type of culture in Vietnam and India. Vietnam is basically a mini China and India is trending towards the same authoritarian regime that most people find distasteful. The entire western world is so addicted to cheap labor I don't know what would happen when there is no more cheap labor to be found. There will be a huge social disrupti…

indeed. vietnam is run by the communist party of vietnam. remember, they won the war. that's why there is no south vietnam and north vietnam anymore (unlike korea). there is no free speech. there is no rule of law. there is no free market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Vietnam i wonder how long it will take before we start hearing "i hate the VCP but i love vietnamese people/culture". probably when…

Unlike China it's not like they can operate in a closed environment independently though, they need the outside world

Re: Leaving China

#35

Post by layer8 »

akira2501 wrote: post #12
politelemon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a cynical view (sorry) that labor will always be cheap somewhere. It's part of the globalization machine, there will always be a decline somewhere, and if there isn't, one will be created.

This view seems inconsistent. Artificial manipulation is not sustainable in the long term. The ability to continually create conditions that lead to cheap labor is limited and will eventually fail.

On the contrary, it seems that increase of income inequality is a natural trend.

Re: Leaving China

#36

Post by xtian »

realusername wrote: post #34
inconceivable wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

indeed. vietnam is run by the communist party of vietnam. remember, they won the war. that's why there is no south vietnam and north vietnam anymore (unlike korea). there is no free speech. there is no rule of law. there is no free market. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Vietnam i wonder how long it will take before we start hearing "i hate the VCP but i love vietnamese people/culture". probably when…

Unlike China it's not like they can operate in a closed environment independently though, they need the outside world

China needs the outside world, too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belt_and_Road_Initiative

Re: Leaving China

#37

Post by nonethewiser »

abstractbeliefs wrote: post #15
politelemon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a cynical view (sorry) that labor will always be cheap somewhere. It's part of the globalization machine, there will always be a decline somewhere, and if there isn't, one will be created.

China's Belt and Road Initiative suggests that they view the under-developed Middle East and African nations to be the next in line, the same as the US viewed China as a source of cheap labour. The party has been making deep investments into the regions and is developing significant political and social capital at the same time that the West is retreating from them, cutting foreign aid, etc.

> China's Belt and Road Initiative suggests that they view the under-developed Middle East and African nations to be the next in line, the same as the US viewed China as a

I think it’s more “want” than “see.” They might see Vietnam as next in line but outsourcing to ME and Africa suit their interests better.

Re: Leaving China

#38

Post by nonethewiser »

flextheruler wrote: post #14
politelemon wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a cynical view (sorry) that labor will always be cheap somewhere. It's part of the globalization machine, there will always be a decline somewhere, and if there isn't, one will be created.

I’m not sure it’s globalization. There will always be rich countries and poorer countries. Like there will always be poor people and rich people. The gap may and should shrink between the two but not vanish.

And if there is not, we either have global poverty or a tremendous amount of force applied to the distribution of wealth.

Re: Leaving China

#39

Post by 908B64B197 »

tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

> but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty great for me. I understand that it might come at the cost of some personal freedom but I'm willing to pay that price for a great society in return.

Hope you are white. If so, I'm certain you'll have a great experience. You'll be shown the modernity and good side of living under the regime, and probably made to believe they are the rightful holders of the "Mandate of Heaven". Make sure to stay in Han dominated areas, and don't document of film anything that could make the regime lose face.

> Note: I'm not Chinese.

Why are you explicitly spelling it out? So we don't immediately assume this is propaganda?

Don't worry. If they like you enough, you'll even get paid for comments like these!

Re: Leaving China

#40

Post by auggierose »

freitzkriesler2 wrote: post #32
tiny_ta wrote: post #13

It's so interesting to read this perspective since it drives home "the grass is always greener.." for me. I've lived a pretty charmed life in the US for the past few years (like the majority of HN, I imagine) but I find myself longing to move to a country with dense cities, affordable housing in the city center, great public infrastructure and a modicum of agreement among the citizens and China fits the bill pretty g…

I've lived in China and I can tell you, you will NOT like China especially for the reasons you've stated. China has a ton of problems that aren't readily apparent unless you are feet on the ground. The majority of the culture of china is, "dog eat dog" in that you will be scammed and taken advantage of unless you speak fluent Mandarin. You will run into problems with excessive Chinese bureaucracy both with the govern…

What is a Dach town?
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