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Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

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Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#601
post #368
post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This hits deep and resonates beyond tech. This “ideas” versus “make things happen” divide is also prevalent in science and art.

Ye, often the "creator", the "head" gets credited with everything a whole team come up with. Sure, picking the good and directing it to consistent whole is important but they would be nothing without people that produced that in the first place.

PhD students and postdocs are mostly fungible, though. PIs are not, if only by the virtue of their position in the system.

The same reason why menial workers earn so little relative to how hard they work.

It would appear that both credit and money flow to those who enable things to happen rather than those who execute.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So exact in fact that they will need to specify a program in a click and drag interface, or in human language. This. I started programming in Machine Code, where the "editor" was a pad of graph paper. I've watched management- and business-focused people sneer at us geeks for my entire career, and watched them drool over the thought of finally getting rid of us. Hasn't happened yet. > I'd be surprised if the next st…

Tell me more about this cheese straightener… that sounds amazing. Where do I prepay?

It was a George Carlin joke. Don't remember exactly which monologue, but he was talking about how you can generate a need with advertising.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#604
post #216

Yes, human economy is about the exchange of value between humans – a cheap tautology from Carmack. Money is indeed irrelevant to a snail, as opposed to a would-be SW engineer. But Nature is about making better use of energy gradients, always doing more with less, the principle of least action. Using any surplus to do it again (i.e. evolved life). That's the properly grounded perspective. In that sense "Get skills to…

> It's the broader sense of unease that humanity's gradient-razing days, [...], may soon be over. No, the sense of unease comes from people fearing for their livelihood, given that it looks like that their raison d'être is about to be revoked by some AI automating their career away. A point you so aptly summarized with: > Vast swathes of the human economy are just scaffolding to support the rest: humans reproducing t…

> the sense of unease comes from people fearing for their livelihood, given that it looks like that their raison d'être is about to be revoked by some AI automating their career away

You're on the same boat with Carmack if that's where you find the danger. Then his advice applies.

People have had their livelihood threatened since forever – that is not a new state of affairs. That anxiety we're well equipped to deal with, hard (and genocidal) as it sometimes is.

Just another gold rush for resources, and for status, and for reproductive success. A new caste of winners. Same old.

> so 20-30% of you will be out of a job in the next 15 years

My point was that jobs (and money, and market…) are a machine that serves human ends. The end consumer is always a human, that's our economy's anchor point.

Whatever energy is put to work is ultimately in service of someone getting laid or fed, or their desires/ideals (~firings inside their brains).

As long as that's true, "keep your eyes on delivering value to humans" is a safe bet – just like Carmack says.

Mine was a simple thermodynamical note on Nature (e.g. via one of its creations, humans) finding a more efficient way to bulldoze energy gradients, the true currency of the universe, thus unanchoring our "jobs and careers" system. By cutting out the very expensive middle man.

---------

Your remark on communism is also interesting in that sense. I see a parallel in that the concept of dissolution of individual into a commune, has been introduced several times in large societies, each time resulting in millions of deaths and general devastation. Yet it keeps bouncing back – some very strong attraction basin lurking there, evolutionarily speaking. Not to be trivialized by snarky political one-liners.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#605

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> His prediction was based on the trends he was seeing at the time. But it wasn't even AI. Instead he made this prediction because he saw the rise of no-code tools replacing software developers because managers could finally cut out the pesky "translators", i.e. software developers. It might sound really crazy and stupid today, but when SQL came out, it's advertised as one of "program-generating" languages and was su…

Funny - also COBOL was intended for the 'business' community to write their own programs. Even funnier - we've already lived through the great 'software development adoption' by business and hardly noticed, except some of us got work out of it. A lot of small businesses (legal practices and accountancies were particular suspects) grabbed MS Access with both hands and went wild in the 90s/early 2000s. Timesheets and o…

I’m quite sad there isn’t anything like access these days. I feel like I see fairly clever solutions for things being built in excel, but they can’t scale very well to multiple users. For a lot of processes something like Access would be great for bridging the gap.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#606
post #583
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solution Architect is another common title. As someone else mentioned, Developer Relations is at least adjacent though that tends to be less salesy and, depending on the role/company, may be more focused on community aspects than building demos and the like. In any case, at software companies, there are definitely customer-facing roles that are more technical though they may not involve a lot of direct coding. For no…

I would say an SA (Solution Architect) is very different from an SE (Sales Engineer) in one fundamental way: the SA is focused on delivering value post-contract and the SE is focused on making sure the org is able deliver the value promised by working with sales in the pre-contract phase. In some smaller companies or organization within a company, I can see these roles being performed by the same person but in genera…

Where I work, SAs are pretty much technical pre-sales. (There are also chief architects who are somewhat related.) If a customer needs ongoing post-contract support, they can buy a TAM (technical account manager). We don't have sales engineers.

(When I worked for a long-ago hardware company, system engineers (SEs) were pretty much the equivalent of SAs where I am currently.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#607

30 years ago I got tired of writing the same code over and over, so I went looking for something to cut out the repetition. Around a decade later I got tired of rewriting libraries or programs to make them exactly fit my needs. I used to really enjoy just coding for the sake of coding. But I started to value my time much more. I called this phase "losing my immortality". Any code that ChatGPT can write, I don't want…

This. It's pretty obvious that any software that can be written by machine should be. (It's almost tautological, eh?) Otherwise you're doing what David Graeber famously called "Bullshit Jobs": pointless work that only serves to establish your position in the economic structure.

The immediate issues are: who decides the boundaries of (publicly) acceptable thought -and- who profits?

I think you touch on the deeper and even more challenging issue:

> I'm now trying to teach my son, an avid programmer, how to work with chatGPT. He's 13, so he's got a lot of opportunity to really integrate it into his career, but he also has a lot of blind spots where chatGPT can really lead him down some blind alleys and knife him.

When the talking computers can answer any (allowed) question, the educational challenge becomes building human minds that can recognize and select the right options from the unbounded "white hole" of content that the machines can produce.

Now, the word "right" in the previous sentence is doing a hellofa lot of work. Deciding the right course of action is an open-ended intelligence test. It's evolution, eh?

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been thinking that AI managers is the real killer app for AI. There are challenges, but none seem insurmountable even with the present base tech.

I kinda wonder if it would not be so bad, if a company asked chatGPT “prompt the engineers for status updates occasionally, then take their responses and produce high-level summaries for department heads” or whatever. On their side, the engineers might even ask it “summarize my tickets and come up with an optimistic, business-friendly high level storyline.”

stop "prompting" me and pay attention. I do SO much communication with what I'm working yet it's not enough and I also need to do YOUR job for you. And manage your kanban. And compile all the things I've done at the end of my term. Can't wait for AI to replace you, you are useless.

The only time I see synergies is when we talk about what task to take on next and why.

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#609
post #465

First off, there's a lot of people shooting off their mouths - ignore anyone who hasn't used ChatGPT extensively: it takes some training to learn to use it. Several senior developer friends have been using ChatGPT quite a bit and it seems to work well in lots of places: - isolated algorithms and fiddly bits - it writes complex SQL statements in seconds, for example. LLMs should makes quick work of fussy config files.…

What prompts are they finding useful for creating SQL statements?

Re: Build full “product skills” and you'll probably be fine

#610

It's funny seeing this attitude here from developers types, but when it comes to art or writing or legal work, it's all "disrupt" talk instead. Of course you guys are the ones with the special sauce, something those pesky managers can never grok. Meanwhile continue your work to put them out of a job, the manager definitely won't decide to fire you too as soon as he can justify it to the c suite

Whenever I use midjourney, which is a lot, I think about what I could accomplish if I actually had art skills, to feed to it, and to edit and compose its results, and if all these tools were tightly integrated into existing tools. It seems similar. New heights are possible for those with skills, and the barriers are lowered for those without training. There will be new demand for both things, competition for quality…

> new applications where it wasn't worth it to produce art before at the bottom

I've been using Midjourney to create logos for my FOSS projects. In the past I'd never spend money on something I'm making for free but now I just generate a few variations of a prompt like "create a minimal flat vector logo for a software product called X" and I pick the best one. I don't need a logo for a FOSS project but the barrier to entry is so low there isn't really a reason not to do it. I still pay humans to design logos for products I want to market because AFAIK there isn't really a great way to do minor revisions with Midjourney.

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