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American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

fortune.com

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Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#51

Post by Dalewyn »

skissane wrote: post #47
Dalewyn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Classical Marxism foregrounds class; most of contemporary progressivism foregrounds race, gender and sexuality, I don't see any difference of substance.

The point is if one person is a “Leftist” for whom class is most important and the other is a “Leftist” for whom it takes a back seat to race/gender/sexuality/etc - then the one word (“Leftist”) is being used to mean two different things. What do queer theory, intersectional feminism and critical race theory have in common with Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, etc? I don’t think they have much in common at…

Whether you're talking about how much money, or what genes, or what genitals someone has, or what genitals someone thinks they have, you're still overtly concerned with what someone is and how that can be used to discriminate.

So no, I don't see any difference of substance. The terminology changes, but the substance remains the same.

Not to mention, the left also still talks about class. Remember the "We are the 99%!" craze?

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#52

Post by lelanthran »

CalRobert wrote: post #46
emodendroket wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This idea sounds a lot more appealing when nobody has to specify which services they think should be cut.

Everything athletic.

> [Cut] Everything athletic.

Yeah, but then the sports fans would cry "Cut everything musical". The band members would argue "Cut everything on stage", and the drama society would return with "Cut all the sports".

FWIW, I don't think that sports should have a large place in tertiary educational institutions. It is the activity that has minimal positive impact on education, and largely negative educational impact on those people who play sports.

While everything else at university leads to some sort of learning, sports leads to the opposite - blind and uncritical tribalistic support of the university team, purely because "That's our side". That sort of thing results in blind and uncritical tribalistic support of politics later in life.

We want fewer "I support $FOO because I'm part of the $GROUP that must support $FOO", not more.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#54

Post by dannyw »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #11

This works for now, but what happens next recession when all those degree requirements return? This isn't meant as judgemental, but people only employable due to the labour shortage and only accepted into their field due to the labour shortage are also the people who will struggle most come a lack of a labour shortage.

Those who have work experience usually skip degree requirements.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#55

Post by skissane »

Dalewyn wrote: post #51
skissane wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is if one person is a “Leftist” for whom class is most important and the other is a “Leftist” for whom it takes a back seat to race/gender/sexuality/etc - then the one word (“Leftist”) is being used to mean two different things. What do queer theory, intersectional feminism and critical race theory have in common with Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, etc? I don’t think they have much in common at…

Whether you're talking about how much money, or what genes, or what genitals someone has, or what genitals someone thinks they have, you're still overtly concerned with what someone is and how that can be used to discriminate. So no, I don't see any difference of substance. The terminology changes, but the substance remains the same. Not to mention, the left also still talks about class. Remember the "We are the 99%!…

> you're still overtly concerned with what someone is and how that can be used to discriminate.

But aren’t many people on the Right “overtly concerned with what someone is” and even with “how that can be used to discriminate”?

I think your definition of “Left” is too broad, because it ends up encompassing much of the “Right” in its terms.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#56

Post by tourgen »

bbbbzzz1 wrote: post #21

The admin bloat ought to be cut in order to qualify for federal student loans. I'm always baffled how much tuition was at my public university, yet teacher and TA salaries are so low. It's like everything except academics attached itself to drain money from students

[dead]

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#58

Post by hutzlibu »

throw6969away wrote: post #44
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with a lot of what you say except when you say "only the parts that seem to you to be immediately relevant to your current goal is not an education" I think this sort of learning can, for somebody who is motivated, exceed the knowledge gained at a university. College is meant to give you a holistic, comprehensive overview of your major. But you can get that from sheer experience and from continuing to learn f…

> But you can get that from sheer experience and from continuing to learn from a variety of sources. Books are also... Learning is inherently painful. You are encoding boring new information into your brain, and most of it will be useless. From personal experience, 95% of the things you need to learn in CS or mathematics are boring. It is extremely difficult for most people to find motivation to do this. Schools (wit…

It hurts me to read this. Because actually learning is inherently fun, or used to be.

Why do kids have fun playing? Because they learn this way.

Playing is learning.

Or it used to, until the philosophy settled in, that playing is meant for wasting time (and you surely can waste time playing as most modern games are made for time killing) and learning has to be intentionally hard.

The most effective way to learn new things for me, is still to play around with them. Whether it is compilers or a new graphical framework. And then systematically move on and read documentation about it.

People can do this alone, but you are right that for most, including myself - a structured class can be very helpful. But it does not have to be a pain. The most I learned was in classes where the tutor understood how to teach in a fun and easy way.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#60

Post by Dalewyn »

skissane wrote: post #55
Dalewyn wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whether you're talking about how much money, or what genes, or what genitals someone has, or what genitals someone thinks they have, you're still overtly concerned with what someone is and how that can be used to discriminate. So no, I don't see any difference of substance. The terminology changes, but the substance remains the same. Not to mention, the left also still talks about class. Remember the "We are the 99%!…

> you're still overtly concerned with what someone is and how that can be used to discriminate. But aren’t many people on the Right “overtly concerned with what someone is” and even with “how that can be used to discriminate”? I think your definition of “Left” is too broad, because it ends up encompassing much of the “Right” in its terms.

Your response vindicates my position.
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