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American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

fortune.com

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Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#41

Post by skissane »

throwawayacc5 wrote: post #31
vkou wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to break it to you, but thirty and sixty years ago, colleges were as full of lib as they are today, it's just that most of the radical causes they were getting behind have since had the benefit of the decades it takes to make it into the mainstream. (Or, like communism, have quietly been forgotten about.)

>I hate to break it to you, but thirty and sixty years ago, colleges were as full of lib as they are today They were full of liberals, but now they're full of leftists.

> They were full of liberals, but now they're full of leftists.

That’s not really true though. There’s a huge gap between old-school Marxism and contemporary progressivism. Classical Marxism foregrounds class; most of contemporary progressivism foregrounds race, gender and sexuality, and class issues are moved to the background.

African-American Marxist Adolph L. Reed Jr (professor emeritus of political science at UPenn), criticises “wokeness” as a capitalist scheme to distract and divide the working class-he’s definitely a “leftist”, but I don’t think he’d agree that many of the people you are complaining about really are “leftists” at all.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#43

Post by Dalewyn »

skissane wrote: post #41
throwawayacc5 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I hate to break it to you, but thirty and sixty years ago, colleges were as full of lib as they are today They were full of liberals, but now they're full of leftists.

> They were full of liberals, but now they're full of leftists. That’s not really true though. There’s a huge gap between old-school Marxism and contemporary progressivism. Classical Marxism foregrounds class; most of contemporary progressivism foregrounds race, gender and sexuality, and class issues are moved to the background. African-American Marxist Adolph L. Reed Jr (professor emeritus of political science at UP…

>Classical Marxism foregrounds class; most of contemporary progressivism foregrounds race, gender and sexuality,

I don't see any difference of substance.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#44

Post by throw6969away »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #28
Arainach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people cannot. Not only are retention and learning radically different, the vast majority of people do not have the self discipline to go through the same amount of content. If a class isn't something you're immediately interested in and no one's forcing you to go, most people end up abandoning or skipping it. Watching only the fun parts or only the parts that seem to you to be immediately relevant to your curre…

I agree with a lot of what you say except when you say "only the parts that seem to you to be immediately relevant to your current goal is not an education" I think this sort of learning can, for somebody who is motivated, exceed the knowledge gained at a university. College is meant to give you a holistic, comprehensive overview of your major. But you can get that from sheer experience and from continuing to learn f…

> But you can get that from sheer experience and from continuing to learn from a variety of sources. Books are also...

Learning is inherently painful. You are encoding boring new information into your brain, and most of it will be useless. From personal experience, 95% of the things you need to learn in CS or mathematics are boring. It is extremely difficult for most people to find motivation to do this. Schools (with grades, etc.) provide a structure to incentivize this.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#45

Post by Dalewyn »

Arainach wrote: post #18
swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope so. You can learn from youtube same as a professors lecturing.

Most people cannot. Not only are retention and learning radically different, the vast majority of people do not have the self discipline to go through the same amount of content. If a class isn't something you're immediately interested in and no one's forcing you to go, most people end up abandoning or skipping it. Watching only the fun parts or only the parts that seem to you to be immediately relevant to your curre…

>Watching only the fun parts or only the parts that seem to you to be immediately relevant to your current goal is not an education.

The vast majority of tech nerds turned IT professionals self-taught themselves how computers work by being concerned only on what interested them at the time.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#46

Post by CalRobert »

emodendroket wrote: post #10
peapicker wrote: post #5

Fire many of the deep layers Of administrators and get back to teaching.

This idea sounds a lot more appealing when nobody has to specify which services they think should be cut.

Everything athletic.

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#47

Post by skissane »

Dalewyn wrote: post #43
skissane wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They were full of liberals, but now they're full of leftists. That’s not really true though. There’s a huge gap between old-school Marxism and contemporary progressivism. Classical Marxism foregrounds class; most of contemporary progressivism foregrounds race, gender and sexuality, and class issues are moved to the background. African-American Marxist Adolph L. Reed Jr (professor emeritus of political science at UP…

>Classical Marxism foregrounds class; most of contemporary progressivism foregrounds race, gender and sexuality, I don't see any difference of substance.

The point is if one person is a “Leftist” for whom class is most important and the other is a “Leftist” for whom it takes a back seat to race/gender/sexuality/etc - then the one word (“Leftist”) is being used to mean two different things.

What do queer theory, intersectional feminism and critical race theory have in common with Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao, etc? I don’t think they have much in common at all. Calling both the former and the latter “leftists” just makes the word meaningless

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#48

Post by throw6969away »

recuter wrote: post #17

Shame that. Last time I drove past a college in the US it was the day the hat sorts people into fraternities or however that works and there was a great big cardboard sign on the lawn with a poignant message scribbled in sharpie: "Thank you for your daughters" Quite the facial expressions on parents dropping off their kids and good chunk of life savings at these ivory towers.

92% of students don't interact with fraternities in the U.S., depending on the school [1]. At the school I went to, it was 70%. If you disassociate yourself with the stupid frat/sorority culture, it is absolutely possible to get a lot out of college, both personally and professionally.

[1] https://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/the-short-lis...

Re: American colleges in crisis with enrollment decline largest on record

#50

Post by throw6969away »

swagasaurus-rex wrote: post #9
birdyrooster wrote: post #4

The stigma of not going to college is going away.

I hope so. You can learn from youtube same as a professors lecturing.

The learning happens via the subsequent homework and exams. In order to learn, you must be tested.
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