Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 32 posts

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#21

Post by goethes_kind »

BjoernKW wrote: post #19
senttoschool wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.

So, people should be anti-WFH to maintain this artificial moat that so far has kept other smart and hungry people from making a decent living and improving their standard of living, simply because they're at the wrong geographical location? This seems like a blinkered and selfish perspective. If the number one thing protecting your job is the office, then quite frankly that job probably shouldn't exist.

It is selfish, but also just true. Just look at the difference in salary between US and EU SWEs.

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#22

Post by BjoernKW »

goethes_kind wrote: post #21
BjoernKW wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, people should be anti-WFH to maintain this artificial moat that so far has kept other smart and hungry people from making a decent living and improving their standard of living, simply because they're at the wrong geographical location? This seems like a blinkered and selfish perspective. If the number one thing protecting your job is the office, then quite frankly that job probably shouldn't exist.

It is selfish, but also just true. Just look at the difference in salary between US and EU SWEs.

That it's true - or rather - the current state of affairs, doesn't make it right.

Restricting the (relative) access to opportunities and resources to a select group of people by means of artificial barriers has never worked in the long run, and fortunately so. Otherwise, most people would still be living in abject poverty with only a tiny aristocratic class having agency and control over their lives and standard of living.

I find it particularly baffling that while people would usually claim to be all for social justice and a more equitable distribution of resources, the second their own privileged position is at risk, those ideas go out of the window.

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#23

Post by globalise83 »

throw827474737 wrote: post #15
ll_mama wrote: post #4

It's definitely not ChatGPT or AI (or at least not just that), it's remote work as well. I'm seeing a lot of companies hiring worldwide remote talent at a huge discount. This time its different from the outsourcing we have seen in the past. Because you now have experienced remote US and EU developers living somewhere where their cost of living allows them to be very competitive on rates and salary. An US developer li…

> living in Asia, can charge 50-100$ per hour, which comparatively to the US, would be 100$+-500$ per hour. And that is happening a lot now. Numbers please.. you mean only now due to the WFH move upper management realised they don't need to watch butts in chairs and can hire anyone from all over the world and look at that economic advantage, though that had been always possible before, and was even often attempted wi…

I think the big change is that companies are now hiring more or less directly 1:1 (often with a employer of record for convenience). Previously companies contracted with outsourcing firms and had no real say over the quality of individuals. At least in my narrow experience the new model works well - there are great people in India, Pakistan, Kenya and Nigeria etc. who are just as good as on-site people and can probably live very well on their salary compared to local living costs.

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#24

Post by drakonka »

senttoschool wrote: post #8
ll_mama wrote: post #4

It's definitely not ChatGPT or AI (or at least not just that), it's remote work as well. I'm seeing a lot of companies hiring worldwide remote talent at a huge discount. This time its different from the outsourcing we have seen in the past. Because you now have experienced remote US and EU developers living somewhere where their cost of living allows them to be very competitive on rates and salary. An US developer li…

Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.

I realize HN is largely US-based, but sometimes still do a double-take when I see people say "all" and mean US-only. As one of the all pro-WFH people, I very much remain pro-WFH whether it pertains to working for a US or local company (and pretty sure I would even if I were in the US).

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#26

Post by savorypiano »

BjoernKW wrote: post #19
senttoschool wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.

So, people should be anti-WFH to maintain this artificial moat that so far has kept other smart and hungry people from making a decent living and improving their standard of living, simply because they're at the wrong geographical location? This seems like a blinkered and selfish perspective. If the number one thing protecting your job is the office, then quite frankly that job probably shouldn't exist.

Somehow you think that your unselfish perspective will result in corps raising wages abroad? Maybe a bit but certainly they will be aware enough to control wage inflation there too. The benefits aren't going to accrue to the commoner.

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#27

Post by VagueMag »

BjoernKW wrote: post #19
senttoschool wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.

So, people should be anti-WFH to maintain this artificial moat that so far has kept other smart and hungry people from making a decent living and improving their standard of living, simply because they're at the wrong geographical location? This seems like a blinkered and selfish perspective. If the number one thing protecting your job is the office, then quite frankly that job probably shouldn't exist.

Tech workers who adopt this perspective shouldn't be surprised to find themselves in the same position as manufacturing workers when the United States was deindustrialized over the last 4 decades. Labor in the U.S. is not on an even footing with labor overseas because the USD cost of living and real estate prices are so much higher here.

Flattening out global entry wages like this will be great for the holders of corporate equity capital but would probably even rugpull U.S. real estate prices.

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#28

Post by throwaway675309 »

senttoschool wrote: post #8
ll_mama wrote: post #4

It's definitely not ChatGPT or AI (or at least not just that), it's remote work as well. I'm seeing a lot of companies hiring worldwide remote talent at a huge discount. This time its different from the outsourcing we have seen in the past. Because you now have experienced remote US and EU developers living somewhere where their cost of living allows them to be very competitive on rates and salary. An US developer li…

Exactly the reason why I said all pro-WFH people should actually be anti-WFH. I’ve traveled around the world. There are many smart and hungry people willing to work at night for your American salary. The number one thing protecting your job is the office.

False. Many companies which offer WFH limit job applicants to US Citizens only because of the difficulties related to supporting international tax systems.

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#29

Post by [deleted] »

BjoernKW wrote: post #22
goethes_kind wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is selfish, but also just true. Just look at the difference in salary between US and EU SWEs.

That it's true - or rather - the current state of affairs, doesn't make it right. Restricting the (relative) access to opportunities and resources to a select group of people by means of artificial barriers has never worked in the long run, and fortunately so. Otherwise, most people would still be living in abject poverty with only a tiny aristocratic class having agency and control over their lives and standard of l…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: How Bad Is the Current Market? Pt3

#30

Post by cableshaft »

VagueMag wrote: post #27
BjoernKW wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, people should be anti-WFH to maintain this artificial moat that so far has kept other smart and hungry people from making a decent living and improving their standard of living, simply because they're at the wrong geographical location? This seems like a blinkered and selfish perspective. If the number one thing protecting your job is the office, then quite frankly that job probably shouldn't exist.

Tech workers who adopt this perspective shouldn't be surprised to find themselves in the same position as manufacturing workers when the United States was deindustrialized over the last 4 decades. Labor in the U.S. is not on an even footing with labor overseas because the USD cost of living and real estate prices are so much higher here. Flattening out global entry wages like this will be great for the holders of cor…

> but would probably even rugpull U.S. real estate prices

Good, it's been increasing at an out of control pace for a long time, but especially since the pandemic.

I'm saying this as a homeowner myself, whose home went up in 'value' almost 50% since I bought it five years ago (it really hasn't, if anything it should have gone down a bit from wear and tear, it desperately needs a new roof, deck, fence, and some gnawed up corners of walls and trim patched up from puppies when they went through teething).

Post reply on HN