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More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

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Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#81
Good. Needs to happen. Was talking to our HVAC repair dude. He makes as much as I do with a high school education and two years of trade school. Adjusting for age, he definitely makes more than I did at 34.

No reason to send kids who want to work with their hands to four year colleges and saddle them with 100k in debt when they can work through a trade school, be done at 20, and have no student loan debt.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#82

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

I'm surprised you didn't include anything about meeting people for work, romance, friendship, or other social benefit, as for many, that can be a huge part of college.

That's only because almost everyone desirable goes there. If people stopped going, they could meet elsewhere.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#83
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my point was that "art", while certainly a viable career should you have talent, cannot be taught. a bit like programming, or anything else, when i come to think of it...

most of the greatest masters were taught art from childhood, it’s not magic

most of the great masters children did not become great artists

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#84

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

People—and not just "elites"—actually go to college to learn things. This is way too cynical/contrarian of a take.

Attend more actual college, read less Howard Zinn.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#85

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

It also grows the intellectual souls, exposing people to far more depth of thought. It also builds professional networks. If a person is smart enough to receive it, more education is almost always good. Of course money is a factor, and schools have gotten insanely expensive. I’m glad to hear that more people are finding alternative routes - it shouldn’t be that everyone needs college because quite frankly many career…

That's #2 on the GP. At least if the college is as expensive as the US ones are, only the elite can get a positive value from those things.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#86
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, basically lots of low tier unis are not worth wasting ur money on. Ironically, I learnt the most important skills(learn how to learn effectively, prioritization etc) only after I started to work in a company where I was getting coached. I would have been far more efficient if go back to school now.

i wouldn’t say that. i just think if you go to a lower ranked school your path to career success more so relies on getting a technical degree but yes you shouldn’t be studying liberal arts at a no name school.

That's what parent&thread said. Technical trade was mentioned as a category

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#87
post #45

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

4. An amalgamation of sports teams for talented athletes to shop their skills to professional sports scouts.

The sports side of college is bizarre. I think it is descended from British upper class amateur athletics, but it makes no sense in modern times. Athletics has nothing to do with education. Nothing at all. Star athletes are there only so they can get noticed by scouts. Universities keep teams around for the money. They ought to stop pretending there's any connection to education and replace it all with minor leagues and farm teams. But since there's a hundred years of tradition, I doubt anything will change.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#88
As someone who has worked two of the most intensive blue collar jobs, people should be wary of romanticizing blue collar work.

Blue collar workers are expected to really work at their jobs. White collar workers can chill if there is no work to be done, or be sent home early with pay, or take a relaxation day and just browse the internet and listen to podcasts. They have perks, you see white collar workers leaving work early to attend baseball games and do fun activities with their colleagues.

Indeed, some white collar workers are so "underworked" they can literally work multiple full time remote jobs. Blue collar guys can't work remote, so expect to pay for child care and endure the mourning commute.

Blue collar workers aren't necessarily paid based on merit, this is formally true if you work in a union-shop where promotions are primarily based on tenue; if non-union there may be no promotion path for most workers because management has a "fresh meat for the grinder" approach to entry level staffing.

From a social perspective people don't respect blue collar workers. Believe that nobody who writes think pieces praising blue collar workers wants their daughters dating a blue collar worker or wants their children becoming them.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#89
post #45

College seems to have ~3 uses from students' perspectives: 1. A trade school for technical professionals who actually need specialist education (scientists, engineers, lawyers, doctors, etc.) 2. A finishing school for the elite 3. A blood sports arena for the brilliant to complete for professorships (almost all of whom will lose and be saddled with 6 figures of debt and 7 figures of opportunity cost) A lot of people…

4. An amalgamation of sports teams for talented athletes to shop their skills to professional sports scouts.

That's true but an extremely small cohort, <100 per school, at only a few of the top sports schools.

Re: More students are turning away from college and toward apprenticeships

#90
post #9

I have been programming for a Fortune 500 company for four years. Not long ago, I applied for a job at another Fortune 500 company. HR really had only question for me, they saw on my resume I did not have a college degree listed, and did I have one? I said I went through most of college towards a Bachelors in Computer Science but dropped out before graduation. I did not get the job, although I don't know if that's wh…

Whatever your opinion may be, degrees are often seen as a heuristic for "can complete a long, hefty commitment".
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