Live data from Hacker News

How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

cs.princeton.edu

121–130 of 171 posts

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#121

>This strange set of circumstances raises at least three broad questions ... >- Why wasn't the degree granted?" According to [1] "in 1968, he defended his PhD thesis on "Computational Complexity and Program Structure" at Harvard under the supervision of Patrick C. Fischer. However, Ritchie never officially received his PhD degree as he did not submit a bound copy of his dissertation to the Harvard library, a requirem…

I thought the article was interesting and worthwhile, but also was disappointed there wasn't more discussion about the context you're pointing out. I don't know anything about it outside of what's stated in the article, but it seems based on what was written there was enough uncertainty about the context surrounding the document to raise questions about the authenticity of the story or the document itself.

To me, the article seemed to strongly imply — although not explicitly state — that the document was created post hoc to fit the story rather than being genuinely completed at the time of his degree program. They proceed as if the mystery is in how he created the document at the time, rather than to question whether it was created at the time, even though that seems to be an obvious question to raise.

To be clear, I don't mean to suggest Ritchie did fabricate anything — to me the thesis (links to which have posted by someone in this thread) looks very similar to other mathematical documents from that time. But the article is written in this way that seems strange to me, in that they focus on assumed typesetting anomalies rather than all of the assumptions themselves.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#122
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole thing is probably done by hand and Ritchie just had excellent handwriting.

It would be hard to beat Edger Dijkstra's handwriting. See e.g. the one numbered 831, where he explains the naturalness of zero-indexing [0]. [0]: https://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/ewd08xx/EWD831.PDF

It’s…

I have horrible handwriting that I’ve never been ashamed of. Now I am.

Thanks for posting this!

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#123
post #70

Nothing about his thesis suggests that it was done using anything except a typewriter and some engineering (drafting)stencils in common use at the time. Typewriters are capable of arbitrary character alignment (and even rotation with clever abuse of the paper) and engineering stencils were in common usage for all common symbolic figures. I have produced documents with similar and more complex features using those too…

> Nothing about his thesis suggests that it was done using anything except a typewriter The repeated and consistent precision is simply not possible with a typewriter alone. I suspect some elements were created with a typewriter, but not most of it.

Maybe he modified a typewriter to allow manual control and precision, probably specifically changes focused towards his goals. A typewriter would have been easily available, access to tools would have been easy considering the prestigious university he was part of and finally, he definitely had the brain power to do something like that. E.g. maybe he had multiple Selectric balls made to allow superscript/subscripts/symbols and changed them to accomplish different "levels" of a line.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#124
post #99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s empowering. You seem to be under the impression that it is somehow unfair that people don’t have to do everything themselves, and can leverage their social networks to achieve more than they could on their own. I suppose it is unfair to those who, by disability or temperament, don’t build social networks. But so what? Those people are no worse off than they would be in a world where everyone is a shut-in. A…

> And don’t bring socioeconomics into it; In 2003, right before a few new nations entered the European Union, the EU had set up several websites, where people from the new, soon to be, member nations could inform themselfes about each of the current EU member states. The document describing Germany mentioned, under the chapter "Employment", that 80% of all jobs in Germany get distributed via social connections. Now I…

How is that at all surprising in a time of less globalism and internet penetration?

People in small town of course know each other and use word of mouth to find candidates, for example.

What were they supposed to do, put on an advert on the national newspapers for every vacancy in the country?

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sometimes it only requires a personal relation to make something seemingly impossible happen. That's a very empowering anecdote & story, thank you for sharing it :)

Empowering for some, maybe. The anecdote reinforces the now dominant view that networking is everything and people deserve benefits and opportunities that at a different time might be labeled nepotism or favoritism. Honestly the best opportunities I’ve had in life (in different decades, too) were all linked to favoritism by this one friend. The message this sends is that I should have more well-connected successful f…

I think, I have to clear up a little bit!

First, I had no message in relation to empowering/networking or the like!

I told the little anecdote with this in mind: if someone found the thesis work of my former girlfriend (now spouse), and investigated its production method, and would correctly conclude that it was typeset in junks on a Berthold ads 3000 typesetting system, then pasted up on film on a lighttable, than blown up with a reproduction camera and then contact printed on A3 photopaper - the investigator might be tempted to dismiss the diagnosis, as the effort and costs are absolutely ludicrous in relation to the importance of the work. I just showed how such an obvious discrepancy can have a very plausible explanation.

For the "justice" part: my gf asked the teacher for permission to have the work typeset by her boyfriend and the teacher consented, making clear, that only text content and quality of the practical work (the colorized photographs) would be considered for grading, not the outer form as this would put her "out of competition". This was also outlined in the written assessment. In addition, every 3rd party involvement had to be declared in the preposition. It was also only possible, because the thesis subject was of artistic nature, where no strict rules for outer form existed.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empowering for some, maybe. The anecdote reinforces the now dominant view that networking is everything and people deserve benefits and opportunities that at a different time might be labeled nepotism or favoritism. Honestly the best opportunities I’ve had in life (in different decades, too) were all linked to favoritism by this one friend. The message this sends is that I should have more well-connected successful f…

Thank you & I'm glad to be called out on that. Yes in a just meritocratic world, everyone gets the same opportunities subject to their ability to provision them or ability to learn same. And as an introvert I certainly feel the pain that when it comes to attracting resources that sometimes appear unmerited, my perception is that extroverts & the socially-connected seem to own this game hands-down. To use parent comme…

In a way, I believe the idea of a "just, meritocratic world" masks the actual underlying problem -- that we do not have measures in place to prevent individuals or small groups from gaining grossly disproportionate levels of power in our society. We wouldn't need to keep the natural human inclination of socialising and networking in check if all it ever resulted in was a few nicer looking photo books.

In my interactions outside of professional life, I find such happy coincidences of skills and connections to lead to outcomes that simply enrich everyone, like how this photo album surely pleased the commenter, the gf, the school teachers, etc. Rarely does anything like this hurt anyone. Sure, someone might be a little more popular in a social circle for a time because of some cool thing they made with their cool friends, but these kinds of things are transient and -- in a context of conditions of fairness -- some other person with some other cool new thing will eventually displace them.

In a capitalist world where "cool new things" can lead to concentration of wealth that can be guarded and leveraged to create more, then networking (familial/nepotistic or otherwise) can lead to unfair outcomes. But the idea of a meritocratic system still leads to the same unfair outcomes, just decided on a different and still somewhat arbitrary set of requirements.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#127

I have not done any research in Ritchie's PhD thesis, but just as a general hint on the research: besides typewriters there were of course (foto-)typesetting systems at the time capable of producing the output. The Berthold Diatype, for example, dates back to 1952 and would have been able to produce the formulars. It would have required painstaking preparation and a very experienced typesetter - but, possible. Intere…

> I am fully into the typewriter theory. I don't think that's possible. I was a typesetter for 14 years throughout the first years of desktop publishing and deep into the 1990s, and though with WYSIWYG software reproducing this would be possible, it also would be painful. I suspect Richie used several methods, including a typewriter, paste up and photocopy, but all the copy was probably output with a line printer wit…

Formulas and tables much more intricate than that of Dennis' PhD, were typeset in metal type and letterpress printed a hundred years ago. It was just so incredibly much work, that the "generation DTP" cannot even imagine the efforts.

I finished my typesetter apprenticeship in 1984. Although we had the most sophisticated fototypesetting systems of the time, we were not able to produce font outlines of arbitrary fonts (we had a few specialised outline font plates, though).

To create an outline, I would typeset the desired text, put it on film, make a negative contact copy of the film and then do a series of contact copies of both the positive and negative film with interlayed dispersion sheets to the effect, that the positive would become leaner and leaner and the negative bolder and bolder. When the desired outline stroke width was reached, I would very carefully assemble both on top of each other, take a photo with the reproduction camera and do a final contact copy to a positive on paper. This would typically occupy me for half a day.

2 years later I was doing desktop publishing and it was possible to create an outline just with a click of the mouse and for any font and possibly with custom stroke width. I was presenting desktop publishing systems at trade shows, and once a dude asked me to do this and this and I complied willingly. Then he wanted me to make an outline, which I did, and then he wanted me to put a color gradient on the outline (which was not possible at the time, but shortly after) and I just had to laugh about the presumptuousness of the people that had no typesetting background. But sure enough, DTP would make all this possible in an incredibly short time...

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sometimes it only requires a personal relation to make something seemingly impossible happen. That's a very empowering anecdote & story, thank you for sharing it :)

Empowering for some, maybe. The anecdote reinforces the now dominant view that networking is everything and people deserve benefits and opportunities that at a different time might be labeled nepotism or favoritism. Honestly the best opportunities I’ve had in life (in different decades, too) were all linked to favoritism by this one friend. The message this sends is that I should have more well-connected successful f…

It is both empowering and negative.[0]

I got the same mentoring early in life. Networking matters. And yeah the system sucks and is a poor meritocracy, if that itself is even the better state of affairs.

Regardless, we live in the system we have and we either work it to our benefit or not.

Meta:

[0] Naysayers, knowledge is power. Prior to said mentoring, I had near completely dismissed networking, believing is was unnecessary and a sign of poor skills and other such ideas. Realizing how things actually do work was literally life changing.

If impacts like that are not signs of empowerment, I do not know what is.

Meritocracy sounds nice, and perhaps is a worthy state of affairs, that is not currently the system we live in. That may be hard news. Was to me.

As always, it sure would be nice and far more productive to read a rebuttal...

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#129
post #30

The actual PhD thesis[pdf], the topic of discussion: https://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/20... Found here [0] with two copies archived: * Dennis Ritchie’s personal copy [1] * Albert Meyer’s copy [2] [0] https://computerhistory.org/blog/discovering-dennis-ritchies... [1] https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/10278497... [2] https://www.computerhistory.org/collections/catalog/1027909…

During my undergraduate study of physics at Otago University in New Zealand in the 1970's it became pretty apparent that typing would become central to computing, so I took the Pitman speed typing class and got certified. As a certified Pitman typist from that era, I can say that there is nothing inconsistent to me about this document being typed on a typewriter. It was also common practice to use Letraset to add any…

I was actually trying to remember exactly how I did my Master's thesis in 1981. The output was printers with daisy wheels connected to a Honeywell mainframe. I'm pretty sure I must have been able to do superscripts directly. But I may have used Letraset for the Greek letters.

Re: How did Dennis Ritchie produce his PhD thesis? A typographical mystery (2022) [pdf]

#130
post #99
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it’s empowering. You seem to be under the impression that it is somehow unfair that people don’t have to do everything themselves, and can leverage their social networks to achieve more than they could on their own. I suppose it is unfair to those who, by disability or temperament, don’t build social networks. But so what? Those people are no worse off than they would be in a world where everyone is a shut-in. A…

> And don’t bring socioeconomics into it; In 2003, right before a few new nations entered the European Union, the EU had set up several websites, where people from the new, soon to be, member nations could inform themselfes about each of the current EU member states. The document describing Germany mentioned, under the chapter "Employment", that 80% of all jobs in Germany get distributed via social connections. Now I…

In other words 20% of jobs were distributed via the much less efficient and risky approach of job adds, formal applications, HR scanning CVs for buzzwords and credentials, lengthy interview vetting process, etc.

I agree with OP. It is empowering that you can achieve more when working with people you know well and trust.

You mention that this makes it harder for immigrants. Of course it does. Immigration is disruptive to once life. It only makes sense to migrate, if the prospects at the new place are much better, despite effectively loosing access to your existing network at home. Of course it will take time, to re-build such a network.

Post reply on HN