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Shoshikantetsu

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Re: Shoshikantetsu

#31

Post by wenyuanyu »

whoevercares wrote: post #24

In Chinese sense, IMO its chengyu of similar meaning are very beautiful -矢志不渝 https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%9F%A2%E5%BF%97%E4%B8%8D... It’s common to use this to express love as well - love is unshakable

This is indeed a commonly used chengyu with similar meaning. But I perceive "初志" as having a connotation of "original" or "initial" intentions, whereas "矢志" simply implies determined wishes or promises without emphasizing the "initial" aspect. While I'm not an expert in Japanese, my understanding is based on the Chinese perspective, and the actual meaning of "初志" in Japanese might differ.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#32

Post by whoevercares »

wenyuanyu wrote: post #31
whoevercares wrote: post #24

In Chinese sense, IMO its chengyu of similar meaning are very beautiful -矢志不渝 https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E7%9F%A2%E5%BF%97%E4%B8%8D... It’s common to use this to express love as well - love is unshakable

This is indeed a commonly used chengyu with similar meaning. But I perceive "初志" as having a connotation of "original" or "initial" intentions, whereas "矢志" simply implies determined wishes or promises without emphasizing the "initial" aspect. While I'm not an expert in Japanese, my understanding is based on the Chinese perspective, and the actual meaning of "初志" in Japanese might differ.

Yeah it’s subtle - a better one is “始终不渝” which the “intention”(志）is dropped but implied

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#33

Post by rdiddly »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #15
Kokouane wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the original context could be correct: if they say they will do something, they do it.

I know I’m being pedantic, but that would be a low ratio. But I understand the point being made and my pedantry just a peculiarity of English meaning having a strong word order dependence than many other languages.

Just to throw another variable in there, the clause about the ratio is separated from the one about completing things, by the conjunction "but," indicating opposition. So it can be read as something like "I've always prioritized communication" (high say-do ratio, as written) "...BUT, I wanted to" (make a change and) "strategize seeing things through." Probably not what was meant, but plausible and one of the possibilities I considered when I noticed the thing you noticed!

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#34

Post by lifthrasiir »

wenyuanyu wrote: post #29
lifthrasiir wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that 矢志不渝 [1] is a more close analogue in that this exact four-letter form is always used. The Korean version is substantially different too, it's 初志一貫 (초지일관 Chojiilgwan ). [1] https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E7%9F%A2%E5%BF%97%E4%B8%8D%E6%...

As a Chinese person, I perceive "初志" as having a connotation of "original" or "initial" intentions, whereas "矢志" simply implies determined wishes or promises without emphasizing the "initial" aspect. While I'm not an expert in Japanese, my understanding is based on the Chinese perspective, and the actual meaning in Japanese might differ. It's intriguing to see how these nuances can vary across languages and cultures.

I personally analyze 初志一貫 as simply being consistent (一貫) from the beginning (初志), not necessarily retaining the original subject (only implied). I believe this is the most frequent Korean interpretation because 初志 초지 is not a common Korean word (its synonym 初心 초심 is common) and 初志一貫 is probably the only phrase you can find this word.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#35

Post by mgdlbp »

justusw wrote: post #19
rippercushions wrote: post #3

Many (but not all) Japanese four-character idioms ( yojijukugo ) are actually Chinese imports, and they're IMHO far more prevalent in that language. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengyu https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yojijukugo

It makes for a fun bridging the gap cultural experience when talking to Chinese people about the Chinese idioms you learn in Japanese class. Even the pronunciation is so similar (I mean, of course it is, duh). My favorite one is 吴越同舟 or 呉越同舟 (Wú Yuè tóng zhōu) meaning people of different backgrounds finding themselves having to work together. https://www.zdic.net/hans/%E5%90%B4%E8%B6%8A%E5%90%8C%E8%88%... https://jis…

And Russian and Ukraine, presently superlatively so.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#36

Post by glandium »

labster wrote: post #6
rippercushions wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some sense yojijukugo are the original memes, in that they can be riffed off for humorous purposes. For example, the Japanese idiom for "the strong devour the weak" is 弱肉強食 jakuniku kyuushoku (the meat of the weak is the food of the strong), but you can instead say 焼肉定食 yakuniku teishoku (lit. grilled meat set meal) for laughs, and rakugo comedian Jakusaburo Katsura released an album called 雀肉共食 jakuniku kyuushoku…

Japanese is a wonderful language for puns. Not only do they have homophone puns (so many homophones) and rhyming puns, but also visual puns like Katamari Damacy 塊魂.

Kind of in the theme of 塊魂, there's a yojijukugo with 4 鬼: 魑魅魍魎 (ちみもうりょう, chimimouryou, evil spirits of rivers and mountains)

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#37

Post by creakingstairs »

Sharing some Korean Yojijukugos (originating from China)

위록지마(謂鹿止馬) wii rok ji ma

To point at a deer and call it a horse. Used for suck ups who says agrees to things that are clearly not right.

읍참마속(泣斬馬謖) ub cham ma sok

To behead Ma Su (name) while crying. In the Romance of Three Kingdoms, Zhuge Liang had to behead his favourite general Ma Su as he wept because Ma Su ignored the given command resulting in losing the war. This is used when you have to be fair for the greater good.

There are also fake yojijukugos which were created on online forums. These are not based on Chinese characters but made by taking letters from Korean phrases. But they caught on because they kinda sound like real yojijikugos :D

내로남불 nae ro nam bul

Romance for me, but adultery for you. Used for people who are lenient to themselves but strict to others.

자강두천 ja gang doo cheon

Fight of two strong-sprited geniuses. Used when two strong characters butt head with each other.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#38

Post by glandium »

krackers wrote: post #7

Beyond idiomatic yojijukugo (or perhaps because of it?), 4 mora abbreviations seems to be really common in Japanese. E.g. "debadora" for "device driver" [1] [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23798995

Just to make it clear, this doesn't only apply to imported words (although it's probably where it's more common). It works for purely Japanese words too. For example: なるはや (naruhaya) is a 4 mora abbreviation of なるべく早く (narubeku hayaku). Another one: あけおめ (akeome) is an abbreviation of 明けましておめでとうございます (akemashite omedetougozaimasu)

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#39

Post by dejawu »

A similar idea that resonated with me is CGP Grey's suggestion to replace resolutions with themes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVGuFdX5guE

Rather than set a lofty goal you're more likely to give up on (leaving you having accomplished nothing), simply look for ways in which you can do/be better than you were before.

Re: Shoshikantetsu

#40

Post by stefncb »

FPGAhacker wrote: post #15
Kokouane wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the original context could be correct: if they say they will do something, they do it.

I know I’m being pedantic, but that would be a low ratio. But I understand the point being made and my pedantry just a peculiarity of English meaning having a strong word order dependence than many other languages.

That's actually interesting, because if they'd said low ratio, it would probably have confused people. I think it's math having the strong order dependence; when people say a high a to b ratio, they likely mean a 'good' ratio contextually instead of mathematically high.
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