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Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

blog.alexellis.io

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Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#571

Post by [deleted] »

chaxor wrote: post #495
screamingninja wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BitTorrent will solve the distribution problem but not magically provide more storage. Someone still has to foot the bill for storing gigabytes (or terabytes) worth of docker images.

This doesn't make sense as an argument at all. If there isn't anyone using the image, no one will have it on their computer... Sure - but that isn't as much of an issue if you have a build file that constructs the image up from more basic parts. Secondly, the popular files get way way faster with the more their used/downloaded. Torrent is a phenomenal *wonderful* system to distribute Machine Learning weights, docker…

[deleted]

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#572

Post by caeril »

dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

This whole thing is so weird. Why do so many organizations depend on the internet to function?

It wasn't too long ago that it was standard practice to vendor your dependencies; that is, dump your dependencies into a vendor/ directory and keep that directory updated and backed up.

But now, you all think it's 100% acceptable to just throw your hands up if github is down, or a maven repository is down, or docker hub makes a policy change?

Every year that goes by it becomes clear that we are actually regressing as a profession.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#573

Post by yenda »

dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

Sounds like you could save yourself some time and budget by offering to pay for those images your are using?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#574

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

dralley wrote: post #558
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's Ada.

Ada has no ecosystem, and a lot of the ecosystem that does exist is proprietary, and it brings us back to point #2.

> Ada has no ecosystem, and a lot of the ecosystem that does exist is proprietary,

Not no ecosystem, but yes it's way smaller... probably even smaller than Rust, yes.

> and it brings us back to point #2.

I seriously doubt it. Ada is supported directly in gcc; why would it have any worse platform coverage than anything else?

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#575

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

londons_explore wrote: post #36
jon-wood wrote: post #13

Docker the tool has been a massive benefit to software development, every now and then I have a moan about the hassle of getting something bootstrapped to run on Docker, but it's still worlds better than the old ways of managing dependencies and making sure everyone on a project is aligned on what versions of things are installed. Unfortunately Docker the company appears to be dying, this is the latest in a long line…

Docker should have been a neat tool made by one enthusiast, just like curl is. Instead it has a multi-million dollar company behind it, and VC's who demand profits from a thing that shouldn't have ever had a business plan.

Docker was created by dotCloud for a different purpose than it ended up as. I think they are owed credit for what has become an incredibly elegant solution to many problems, and how great the user experience has always been.

Compare it to other corporate-managed tools like Terraform and Ansible. Both of them have horrible UX and really bad design decisions. Both make me hate doing my job, yet you can't not use them because they're so popular your company will standardize on them anyway. Docker, on the other hand, is a relative joy to use. It remains simple, intuitive, effective, and full of features, yet never seems to suffer from bloat. It just works well, on all platforms. There were a few years of pain on different platforms, but now it's rock solid.

And to be fair to them, their Moby project is pretty solidly open-source, and if Docker Inc dies, the project will continue.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#576

Post by ohgodplsno »

tsuujin wrote: post #357
ohgodplsno wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on, 30 days notice is a walk in the park. Additionally, OP was the one complaining that changing a few URLs and eventually spinning up a new server. It's quite literally a one day or two job, unless you're at a company the size of Amazon (in which case, luckily for you, you're not the only SRE, so it's still just a few days). > The best I can come up with, at the moment, is waiting for each organization to make…

“Tell me you’ve never worked an enterprise tech job without telling me you’ve never worked an enterprise tech job.” My next 30 days are already accounted for, and will already include disruptions that actually come from the area of work.

So, you're 100% booked with no room for anything? Congratulations on your management for understaffing your team and expecting you to do 120% if something happens, they're saving up quite a bit of money.

You might want to start respecting your free time though, because they clearly don't give a shit about you.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#577

Post by ownagefool »

dbingham wrote: post #230

As an SRE Manager, this is causing me a hell of a headache this morning. In 30 days a bunch of images we depend on may just disappear. We mostly depend on images from relatively large organizations (`alpine`, `node`, `golang`, etc), so one would want to believe that we'll be fine - they're all either in the open source program or will pay. But I can't hang my hat on that. If those images disappear, we lose the abilit…

> I mean, 30 days isn't enough time to find alternatives and migrate.

Write a script to iterate the images and push them to your own registry. This will buy you time in the event anything does dissapear.

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#579

Post by bravetraveler »

tetha wrote: post #555
bravetraveler wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The typical Docker registry software when configured as a 'pull through' doesn't allow for pushes, if memory serves. That may be an important consideration while handling the situation We run them in 'maintenance mode' just to be absolutely sure anything the upstream doesn't have (or had at one point) is permitted in! Though, I don't think they'll allow pushes anyway with 'proxy.remoteurl' defined. I'm not sure I fol…

> I'm not sure I followed your setup properly, but with the private registry defined as your 'proxy.remoteurl', you shouldn't have to worry about the Hub in particular - unless it's looking there, or people are pushing bad things into it That is exactly the thing I am worried about, as we have a pull-through mirror for the docker hub. What happens if some goofus container from that chaotic team pulls in knownOSS/comp…

Ah I see!

I misunderstood, didn't realize that it's pointing to the Hub. I assumed the more strict sense of 'private' :)

The Docker-provided registry software is limited in terms of "don't go here". You get all of upstream, essentially

Quay or Harbor are more configurable in that regard, but I'm less familiar.

We're privileged, being already very-offline and signature heavy... and that's someone else. I just run the systems/services!

Re: Docker is deleting Open Source organisations - what you need to know

#580

Post by 1propionyl »

_5uxp wrote: post #372
steveBK123 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like another symptom of zirp/cheap money. Lots of ideas that could have been a neat feature or tool somehow ended up raising $500M of funding with no viable plan on ever monetizing. The fact that the product is successful but after a decade they barely make $50M/year of revenue against $500M of lifetime funding is crazy. As a user, you can work at a company with a billion in revenue and barely owe them a few…

Do you also mean things like Uber? with double digit $B lost with no road to be profitable? I agree.

And Lyft... and Doordash... and GrubHub...

Pretty much the entire "gig economy" is full of hot air and survives on regular influxes of VC money despite massive losses every year. The business model doesn't frickin work.

The hope from investors was that they would be investing into what would ultimately become a monopoly that could extract rents to repay them (not very competitive market of them, but that's tipping the hat a little isn't it...) but the funny bit is there's like 5-7 competitors in the US alone doing the same thing.

Here's a take: maybe this is just a natural monopoly situation, and if we like the convenience of gig delivery but don't like the high prices per order or that gig workers don't get sufficient pay, health insurance or other benefits, how about we just nationalize it?

You know, the same way we did for everything that wasn't food or groceries before? USPS Courier service sounds like an idea to me.

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